Saturnine Tenshi Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I actually do that in real life. Not that I'm unaware, but I'll be preoccupied while driving (safe, right) or walking and somehow end up at my destination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 lasting effects of violence on children / teens. By Book 3 Katniss is pretty well messed up. She isn't even the most messed up character in the books. I'd argue that the Tributes from the other Districts, particularly the richer ones, are pretty fucked up from the start. Ditto Haymitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staySICK Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 lasting effects of violence on children / teens. By Book 3 Katniss is pretty well messed up. She isn't even the most messed up character in the books. I'd argue that the Tributes from the other Districts, particularly the richer ones, are pretty fucked up from the start. Ditto Haymitch. this is true. Poor Finnick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 lasting effects of violence on children / teens. By Book 3 Katniss is pretty well messed up. She isn't even the most messed up character in the books. I'd argue that the Tributes from the other Districts, particularly the richer ones, are pretty fucked up from the start. Ditto Haymitch. this is true. Poor Finnick. One of my favourite characters, and the only person who's death I cared about I really meant like the Tributes like Cato and the others from Districts 1-3. The ones who embrace the madness and who look forward to and are excited by the prospect of killing others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 if you wanna talk kids vs kids, go all the way back to Lord of the Flies. Great book. Great's definitely the word for that one. The parallel with BR is more apt for Hunger Games though? Lord of the Flies is more intelligent than either of them, really. On that; I remember one of my lecturers at Uni saying that Lord of the Flies actually opens with nuclear war, and that no readers today ever pick up on it. Anyone else see that in the novel? She isn't even the most messed up character in the books. I'd argue that the Tributes from the other Districts, particularly the richer ones, are pretty fucked up from the start. This is covered in Battle Royale, too; in the series the main characters are in, there are two boys who take part voluntarily, and have won it before. One of them is an utter psycho (really disturbing, even in the movie, his background in the novel is dark as fuck) and the other is mysterious (with, IIRC, a really interesting backstory). Yeah my first thought upon reading the synopsis of Hunger Games on Wikipedia was Battle Royale. It has the same premise of kids being forced into killing each other in an arena situation, however in BR it's one year from a high-school chosen at random (so you get all the social ladders and awkwardness and truths coming to light). BR is pretty clever as it plays on reality TV (lots of adults watch for pleasure, not from law), high-school drama made lethal, and on the IRL brutality of right-wing legislation in the far East, taken very far. The movie of BR is really entertaining and pretty well done, but the books truly great, I felt, which the movie doesn't quite reach. The book spends chapters just developing the politics and characters of the situation before the savagery and high-school politics turned violent kick in. Hunger Games sounds decent but like there's not much thematic depth beyond rebellion stuff? The primary theme of the series is the brutality of war from what I took away. Book 3 really hammers that idea home. It's nice that there isn't really a big good rebels/bad dictatorship dichotomy, but you'd have to read through to see what I mean. Edit: And I guess Collins claimed to have never heard of Battle Royale before writing the book. BR wouldn't really even be the first thing of that nature (as staySICK pointed out, LOTF did something thematically similar), as I've read a few books/short stories with the combat for others' pleasure type thing. I guess you could look all the way back to the Roman gladiators for the real life counterpart as well. Anyway I'll probably have to check BR out if it's that good. Aye, it's not hard to imagine two separate authors coming to the same sort of idea (there's quite a time distance between them, too). The whole set-up of the process in the novel's is what's strikingly similar; however, Hunger Games seems more fantastical, while Battle Royale is basically fiction. It's set in our world, the real world. It even has some alternate history kinds of things. I don't think Lord of the Flies is too comparable to either, really, unless Hunger Games focuses more on tribal things? LotF is so about the old ways and young childhood breaking down, whereas BR is about the contemporary pressures and cut-throat nature of high-school and politics being literalized. The only similarity there is that young people are involved, though LotF is about kids and BR is about late-teen teenagers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Battle Royale is a far superior book, there's no denying that. The two psychos are ridiculous in BR. HG doesn't really focus on tribal, so it's not comparable to LOTF except for the whole kids killing kids thing, but BR/HG are more organised, whereas LOTF it happens out of the situation, rather than the situation being engineered for that particular purpose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 That reminds me of something annoying that Collins wrote into the book just a couple of times, but it's become a pet peeve of mine: narrators who become unaware constantly. Phrases like "The next thing I was aware of, I was back in my house" or whatever. With the possible exception of drunkenness or freaky drugs, I can't imagine not being aware of walking five city blocks back to your house. I'll dig around for the relevant passage but it drives me batty. I actually do that in real life. Not that I'm unaware, but I'll be preoccupied while driving (safe, right) or walking and somehow end up at my destination. Same here. I'll do an hour's drive and realise that I'm coming up on my destination without really having been "aware" of the last 45 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) That reminds me of something annoying that Collins wrote into the book just a couple of times, but it's become a pet peeve of mine: narrators who become unaware constantly. Phrases like "The next thing I was aware of, I was back in my house" or whatever. With the possible exception of drunkenness or freaky drugs, I can't imagine not being aware of walking five city blocks back to your house. I'll dig around for the relevant passage but it drives me batty. I actually do that in real life. Not that I'm unaware, but I'll be preoccupied while driving (safe, right) or walking and somehow end up at my destination. Same here. I'll do an hour's drive and realise that I'm coming up on my destination without really having been "aware" of the last 45 minutes. This is all about the the part of your brain that handles memory altering how much it writes to it's longer-term memory from experience. If you have done the one action millions of times, your brain will write practically nothing down about it when you do it again, as there's nothing new to report. The effect being that the time doesn't exist; your brain just didn't write any of it down, like you burnt a page from your diary where nothing new or interesting happens. This also means that if your mind is preoccupied with something else while you're doing a menial task, your brain will write even less about said menial task than usual. The opposite of this is when you're in an accident, and your brain's memory areas kick into overdrive from shock and adrenaline, and your brain writes down everything happening around you; the effect being that time seems to slow down. You experience everything with extreme detail, and it appears to unfold slowly. (I love BBC radio 4.) As a narrative device, though, it sucks utter balls. Edited January 5, 2012 by kenshi_ryden 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 lasting effects of violence on children / teens. By Book 3 Katniss is pretty well messed up. She isn't even the most messed up character in the books. I'd argue that the Tributes from the other Districts, particularly the richer ones, are pretty fucked up from the start. Ditto Haymitch. this is true. Poor Finnick. One of my favourite characters, and the only person who's death I cared about I really meant like the Tributes like Cato and the others from Districts 1-3. The ones who embrace the madness and who look forward to and are excited by the prospect of killing others. A few of the other deaths were moving, like Boggs and such. But it did kinda feel like a red shirt team engineered expressly to die. --- Regarding the memory thing, it's not that I haven't done anything half-conscious before, but it's gotta make sense with the character and situation. Katniss is a hunter, extremely aware of her surroundings, so you'd think she wouldn't go blank much. I also feel that authors ought to be more careful with their phrasing; saying something like "Suddenly I became aware that I was blah blah blah" makes it sound as if the narrator is a total dunce. Something using phrases like "half conscious" or "not fully aware" or "zoned out" probably describes those scenes better. Remember, if your narrator isn't interested in his surroundings, why should your readers be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Reading through the classic Peanuts strips has been interesting so far. I can tell that Charles Schulz was going mostly for humor at the time but it's clear that he set the bar a lot higher than his peers. It'd be nice to see a typical comic page from the 50s to see what so you can compare what people were reading in Blondie or Dennis the Menace when they had this hit them clear in the face: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Regarding the memory thing, it's not that I haven't done anything half-conscious before, but it's gotta make sense with the character and situation. Katniss is a hunter, extremely aware of her surroundings, so you'd think she wouldn't go blank much. I also feel that authors ought to be more careful with their phrasing; saying something like "Suddenly I became aware that I was blah blah blah" makes it sound as if the narrator is a total dunce. Something using phrases like "half conscious" or "not fully aware" or "zoned out" probably describes those scenes better. Remember, if your narrator isn't interested in his surroundings, why should your readers be? Yeah I understand, I just felt it was the time and the place to throw down some sweet intellectual-radio-chat. You're spot-on with the narrator being interested in the surroundings; if you "suddenly wake up somewhere", you aren't interested in the fact that you just woke up somewhere. You'll be taking in everything around you in an extremely impressionistic, shock-like, hazy way. Getting your bearings. Getting into the thought process of a character in a situation like that would take some imagination, but not necessarily be difficulty (and the effect would be great). It's sloppy writing to use the "then I was here somehow" cliche. Something YA fiction would no-doubt rely upon frequently to generate a sense of mystery. Reminds me of a story idea I had years ago that I might still flesh out, where the main character is a guy who loses his memory after being told something traumatic. The reader doesn't find out what the traumatic news was till the end; and it doesn't really matter, it's about the guy forgetting everything and the journey of him rediscovering his life as essentially a different person. Probably a ridiculous idea for someone to lose memory from traumatic news, but would work well in a story and is better than "I bumped my head in the shower". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Ha, all this talk reminded me of this post from the fine Reasoning With Vampires blog. Actual stuff from the Twilight novels: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I am about halfway through REAMDE [sic] by Neal Stephenson. I am enjoying it. It's gaming related in that the plot gets rolling due to a data-ransoming scam using an MMO designed for gold farming. But it's a sprawling fun adventure/action/heist/spy/thriller/sci fi tale so far and makes for great episodic reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 That sounds really interesting... I'll have to see if I can find a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Oh, I also really dug it because it was unexpected. I got it to read on an airplane back to New York from my mom's house in Northwest Iowa. The first scene in the book is a man going to his family reunion for Thanksgiving in Northwest Iowa. So it had me from the beginning, but it is still some great reading for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainHurtBoy...2 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yeah, I read REAMDE recently. Pretty good. A fun read. Right now, though, I'm going through Tagore's Gitanjali, again. The man is a genius. And I'm almost halfway through 2666. It's, uhh.... really good! Ummm, what else? Right, The Serpent and The Rope by Raja Rao. Just started that, will really get into it after I'm done with 2666. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 How can you read more than one book at once? You monster! On topic: I am... uh. I'm reading this thread? I dunno, haven't really read anything for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffles Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Finished Inheritance, the last book in the series started by Eragon. I had been reading those books since I was a little kid, and I guess I wanted to see how it all ended. And really, it wasn't very good. Filled with purple prose, deus ex machinas, unfinished side-stories and attempts at "maturity" that really didn't fit, it was a really, really disappointing conclusion to what I considered a pretty good series of books. I hate letting the ending of a series ruin the previous books or the story in general, but this just ended poorly, with the author trying to go with the mature, unexpected ending instead of the one that everyone saw coming, but would have nicely rounded out the series and the characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Comic: Planetary by Warren Ellis. What a comic. Really brilliant. Will put it in the comics thread (if that's still kicking about). And just started reading Death Note which I've mentioned on chat already. Seems excellente. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Planetary is really fucking amazing. Did you finish all 4? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Finished the second book in the Hunger games trilogy, Catching Fire. Honestly, I like everything about the series (thus far) except for... the main character, Katniss. It's not so much her personality, it's that she acts too oblivious and asks a lot of questions solely for reader interaction. Not to mention she seems to have frickin' mood swings that go from suicidal to aggressive. Not fequent, but you can at one point read about her plotting to take out someone, but then a few pages later she expects her death and see the benefit in it. Really, the last few pages of the second book are a bit overdramatic and ruins whatever "anticipation" is being set up for the final book. Edited January 13, 2012 by Atomsk88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Planetary is really fucking amazing. Did you finish all 4? Damn straight. Some of the best sci-fi I've read in a looooong time. I'm not sure, I had a download with the 27 issues of the main story, and I haven't yet read the one with Batman or any of the extras yet. But I got the whole story. Incredible stuff. Oddly, a lot of the later concepts like holographic universe theory, parallel universe stacking theory that become really relevant to the story are things I've been thinking about a lot for the last couple of years, and how they should be written into some sci-fi. Too bad Ellis beat me to it. He seems to beat everyone to everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ellis is amazing. But yes, the 27 issues is the main story. The rest of it is just fun extras. http://i.imgur.com/BjxVR.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Just picked up A Dance with Dragons so we'll see how accurate the pissed off Amazon reviewers are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDex Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Just picked up A Dance with Dragons so we'll see how accurate the pissed off Amazon reviewers are. Unless they're like Chew, I see no reason to be pissed off. If you had to wait for so long just to get to A Dance with Dragons and had years to imagine how it would turn out, then yeah, you'd be pissed but as someone who read from the first to aDwD in quick succession just this year, I see no reason to be pissed - it's a great book. I've finally got around to ordering Blood of Elves, the second Witcher book. I've ordered from an Irish book site that has a store in my city so with any luck I'll be able to pick it up from there on Wednesday. can't wait to get stuck into it. The third book is supposed to be getting a translation this year too so what better time to pick it up. Edited January 16, 2012 by MasterDex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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