Hot Heart Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Since this is essentially an English vs English thread I figured the old David Mitchell Soapbox podcast/webisode. would fit right in. Ha. I actually meant to look for that when you said the 'could care less' thing would be a pet peeve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slithy toves Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 i've heard dawdle but never doddle used over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Well dawdle is to go slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 But "dawdle" means to be unnecessarily slow/lingering, which is different from how Hottie used "doddle". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slithy toves Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 i know they mean different things, but they sound the same. so i was saying i'd heard a similar word in a different context used, but not the one he was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 http://www.telegraph...-BBC-study.html More a "english vs" thing. Glad to hear it won't force the BBC to scrap regional accents. I'd guess that's cos while they may get complaints from a few on having them in, they'll have much more complaints if they got rid of regional accents. Also more folks need to watch the Mitchell thing. Seen a few folks the other day, like three posts in a row, that "could care less" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 People actually have trouble understanding Brian Cox? I'm not even English and can understand him just fine. Good shows, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 No, he's there because people had issue listening to him over the music in Wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 The findings could explain why Prof Cox, with his distinctive Lancashire accent, struggles to be understood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 This is where in re-reading it I spot that in first reading I completely blanked that second paragraph. So yeah I just got this bit The complaints reached such a crescendo over Wonders of the Universe, Profesor Brian Cox's BBC Two science series, that producers were forced to remix the series. But yeah I'm with you, I find him to be pretty clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 If only all Brits spoke as well and as sexy as Mariella Frostrup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Remembered 'stroppy' and 'in a strop' for being bad tempered or in a bad mood, today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 You know there's something that I just remembered. I don't know if it's been discussed but entrée does not mean the second course/main course or what comes after the appetiser. It is the appetiser because entrée mean entrance which I'd hope is understood in the name . I know the French Canadians are probably the only N. Americans (I don't mean exceptions) who usually get it right. I was just reading through an OT thread the other day and someone was talking about having an appetiser and two entrees. That just means he had three appetisers to most people . Anyways I do know that these aren't strictly a US vs Brit thing but Penchant is pronounced both Ponchon and Pen-chunt. Schedule though is Skedule and shedule depending on where you're from. I know there was something my wife and I discussed last week that I knew should belong to this thread but I've forgotten it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 When a word is used "wrong" by an entire continent for 100 years it's no longer wrong, that's just what the word means there. It's not that Americans use it incorrectly, it's that it means something different here, as do so many things in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I don't think it's been used 100s of years ago though. If I recall correctly entree became accepted after a wrong cookbook started circulation in the early 20th century. That does technically make it wrong since it's origins are from a misunderstanding. However when words are changed to mean different things like how Gay became from cheerful to refer to homosexuals then it's a different case. A word that's only been used wrong for recent years, when initially it was used correctly means it's a recent error. I don't think most people consider pre 1900s old as yet. it will be old once probably all the WW veterans and that generation dies out. As long as that generation is alive, it's technically not old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I don't think it's been used 100s of years ago though. If I recall correctly entree became accepted after a wrong cookbook started circulation in the early 20th century. That does technically make it wrong since it's origins are from a misunderstanding. You're correct, that's why I said "100 years". The early twentieth century was approximately 100 years ago. Also the origins are irrelevant, what matters now is how it's used. You might want to check the American dictionary definition. As I said, if it's been used "wrong" for that long, it's not wrong anymore, that's just what it means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 When a word is used "wrong" by an entire continent for 100 years it's no longer wrong, that's just what the word means there. It's not that Americans use it incorrectly, it's that it means something different here, as do so many things in this thread. Are you replying to the "entrée" thing here, cos that's a french word. And they've been using it the same way for a fair while. If you've been mistranslating for a hundred years it makes it even worse, not right. Sure you guys are fine with taking the letter U out of english words, but mistranslating French ones isn't really a-okay in the same way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Again, origins are irrelevant. Sure it was a French word, but it has been adopted and given a new meaning, and is now an English word. Jebus guys, learn how language works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Jebus guys, learn how language works. Apprendre à parler Français (also it's not really english since we don't have accents on letters.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Je parle un peu de Francais. J'ai eu trois ans de le en ecole. I'm not sure I got all the conjugation right, and I didn't care enough to use accents, but there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I had 5, some Spanish, bit of german. tbh I kinda just let most of it go, but some stays with you. (for some reason avec has really dug itself in, I'll sometimes write avec instead of with) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) While the US is notorious for murdering foreign languages and pronunciation, I agree with Ethan on this one. After all, English is made up of bits and pieces from other languages that have been beaten into shape. I imagine you could find examples of French words we use that couldn't be seen as a straight translation like entrée = entrance Edited March 17, 2011 by Hot Heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) I've got to disagree on that. I mean yes I agree that's what makes language. But in an era where we define formal automata and try to create AI and everything is either PC or non-PC we need to define some things. And by this what I mean is that we need to formally acknowledge that US English should be called American like a few things do instead of being called US English and British English needs to be called English I guess since it's based on their people? I know there are things that are wrong in British English especially things taken from the former colonies which I do point out whenever opportunity rises. Just like how most people mispronounce things. Full Disclosure I'm not 100% White British so having certain roots in some Asian, Mediterranean and a few other countries does help my stance better in the real world. It's this particular reason why I do sort of not agree with English vs English. I just would like a formal acknowledgement from somewhere that they're two different languages. Here's the thing, this would absolutely be no problem if English wasn't a bridge language and if there were no standards. But there being two cultures who both broadcast a lot of their culture globally - the language causes confusion to a non-native English speaker and English is still not the most widely spoken language. If there can be a formal classification that these are both two different languages then we should be better. For instance Dutch, Dutch spoken in Belgium (Flemish colloquially but not officially) and Afrikaans are all very similar and in fact Dutch is the root language for those (which in turn is rooted from German). However they are recognised as different languages which prevents confusion and also helps outside groups to understand that yes it's similar but different. This would not be an issue if the cultures that broadcast in English understood the difference. As a result of this we now have varieties of local English which are fusions of the Broadcast culture. Not to make this into serious debate, but my problem lies with the fact that this misinterpretations are taken into account because of Broadcast culture. And we now do have localisations and dubs for every culture. It's not that we don't understand but certain things do break the suspension of disbelief. Though honestly I'd have preferred it if Kirby said 'this feels like pants' in the UK version of Epic yarn rather than 'this feels like trousers' simply because that would have brought a whole different level of hilarity . Edited March 17, 2011 by WTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Yeah, we're not trying to get into serious debate, nor can we change how language works. We are just here to point and laugh at the funny stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr W Phallus Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I don't see a problem with using US English to distinguish it from the Queen's English, it's just another regional variation on English that can be seen on a smaller scale throughout the UK. We could perhaps refer to 'American' as a dialect, but it is a long way from being another language. If anything we are moving further towards homogenisation anyway, thanks mostly to the internet (like WTF said, Broadcast culture) both language's are rife with cross-contamination (of course Hollywood has been doing this since long before the internet was around, which is why we probably use more Americanisms than they use Britishisms). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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