English vs English

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, US English and UK English are different dialects, not different languages. And I wasn't saying that "entree" means the main course in English as a whole, I was saying it means the main course in US English, and that's not "wrong". Just like it's not wrong that in the US "pants" means outerwear and in the UK it means underwear, it's just different.

[TheMightyEthan]

"going off" (UK) = "going on" (US)

[Hot Heart]

You're gonna have to give a definition there, Ethan, because right now that doesn't make sense. Sorry.

[deanb]

Well if something is "going off" I'd guess that's like the milk, eggs, cheese, meat starting to smell up the fridge.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

I've never heard "going on" used like that in the US

[Hot Heart]

I was thinking it might be more like when someone is ranting?

 

So, you're either 'going off on one' or 'going on and on'.

 

But that would make Ethan's examples incomplete (and possibly irrelevant since we use both).

Edited March 17, 2011 by Hot Heart

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

That's why I said "like that"

[Hot Heart]

Yeah, I wasn't really talking to you.

 

I didn't think the US used 'going on' like that in the first place.

[TheMightyEthan]

From the BAFTA thread:

 

[The narrator] sounded bored out of his skull, completely disinterested in what was going off.

An American would say "going on" there.

[Hot Heart]

Ah, that might have just been a Dean mistake (considering he didn't even recognise its usage).

 

Closest would be that things can be 'going off' but that's usually in a negative way as in 'shit is going down!'

[Hot Heart]

Friend just linked me this:

 

Wishy-washies and cold on a cob!

[deanb]

Ah, yeah sorry Ethan, that should be "on".

Fireworks go off though. err... yeah there's that.

[TheMightyEthan]

Fireworks go off here too.

[WTF]

You know we haven't even discussed public schools have we?

 

It's one of things that really kills us with the definition of public. While the US version means The General Public School, the British version means quite literally Public School or rather a school for a select group of individuals since public means a group of individuals and general public is the totality of that. I guess it comes from shortening things.

 

Though to a non-native English speaker it's harder to explain cause in popular media usage when we say The Public we mean General Public.

 

And Ethan I do believe you opened a complicated can of worms with the dialect and language discussion . I mean really modern linguistics can't convincingly agree what the difference between a language and a dialect is and have just said leave it to the individual frame of reference.

 

Outside of that we do have things like Flapjacks which I guess is entirely different in the US. My wife (well we weren't married at the time) ordered flapjacks while we were still living in Dubai and got what we'd call Scotch pancakes which is the issue with broadcast culture really (since they do have flapjacks there and call it flapjacks too, just depends on is the chain/company a US one or a British one). This is actually the fault of language evolution, those who migrated to the US never changed the traditional usage of the word flapjack. It's completely different with certain other things that have been picked up.

 

Series and Season in a TV sense does confuse some people who come to the UK, probably speaking from the experiences of people I work with. A series here is a season of a show, whereas in a lot of places a series is the entire show. Not to mention, and this is purely because of how it is here, you only need 6 episodes for a show to get syndicated here but you need 13 in the US. Anything less than that will have a next to impossible task to get syndication unless it rebrands itself.

 

p.s. Anyone here speak actual RP outside of acting?

[TheMightyEthan]

It's one of things that really kills us with the definition of public. While the US version means The General Public School, the British version means quite literally Public School or rather a school for a select group of individuals since public means a group of individuals and general public is the totality of that. I guess it comes from shortening things.

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I understand.

[WTF]

Public schools in the UK are pretty much what you would call Private Schools in the US. Schools where you pay to go. It isn't for the general public because you need money, influence and connections to go there, it's an independent school. Whereas Public schools in the US are State schools.

 

I was just explaining why there probably was a differentiation between Public in the two contexts since it might most likely have to do with the way Public was defined in those times and separated from the general public.

[Mr W Phallus]

I thought we called them public schools because the people who went there traditionally went into the Public Sector, I'm sure I read that somewhere.

 

Wiki has this to say, however: 'This use of the term derives from its use to refer to some long-established boys' boarding schools, which were founded or endowed for public use and subject to public management or control'. Which makes sense, it is a school owned by members of the public, rather than the state.

 

Also @HotHeart at first I was like 'Wishie-washies? No one calls them wishie-washies...oh wait' Then I cracked up. XD

 

Finally, no offence Ethan, and I'm all for the evolution of language, but using 'entrée' to describe the main-course has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. I don't mean you using it is stupid, just that it ever reached that meaning in the first place.

[Battra92]

An American would say "going on" there.

 

You mean like this?

[Hot Heart]

Also @HotHeart at first I was like 'Wishie-washies? No one calls them wishie-washies...oh wait' Then I cracked up. XD

 

Hehe. Those were my exact same thoughts when I first saw it.

[deanb]

Same here. Wasn't going to pipe up till an American started questioning it.

[Hot Heart]

I don't think they'd question it after seeing some of the others on there.

[deanb]

I was thinking the "rooty-tooty point and shooty" might of made a few folks question it.

[TheMightyEthan]

I began to seriously question it at "whimsy films mark and scribblers", became more sure with "cold on a cob", and then knew something was definitely up with "rooty-tooty point and shooty".

[WTF]

lol that was a fun list .

 

Oh yeah I do have a question though, I'm aware that certain cultures tend to make mistakes when absorbing words from one culture but most of them do end up correcting it when they're told they're wrong. But it usually takes a cultural invasion of sorts. So does that mean for a word to mean what it used to it needs a cultural revolution?

 

What I'm getting at is that Pulao/Pilau for the Indian fried rice dish was spelt Pilauf and pronounced that way for years and then in the last 20-30 years or so it's changed to the more Indianised Pulao or Pilau. Is it because we have more Brasians now and curry is pretty much accepted or something like that? What I'm saying is that if a country become reacquainted with a culture can it not learn to use the original word for what it means?

I know words like Chup for shut up/shush have crept into certain people's vocabs out here...

 

Also by extension could that mean that if hypothetically there was a French cultural invasion of the US entrée would go back to the original meaning. I'm just curious, cause yes we say language works this way or that. But I've noticed correct usage of words in certain languages pop up after such incidents. I'm pretty sure that certain Spanish words might have had that effect already in N. America though I can't think of any examples.

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, I mean obviously if the word can change meaning one way there's nothing stopping it from changing back, it just takes enough people switching to the other meaning.