Piracy

[VicariousShaner]

If this wasn't already posted, Extra credits made a video on Piracy that I wholeheartedly agree with.

It can be found here http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

 

The only games I have ever pirated are classic ones that There would be no way I could find anywhere else, especially because I have a mac (yes, I know, haha) like Day of the Tentacle and the Leisure Suit Larry's.

[TheMightyEthan]

I'll admit that I have pirated, and still to a lesser extent do pirate, but whether you believe me or not I actually do stick to the rule that I only pirate if I wouldn't buy it otherwise. Now, I know some people were criticizing earlier with questions of "well how do you know you'll never buy it, even if the price drops?" and the like, and I'll freely admit that I can't know that. What I do know though is that I do buy games that I have previously pirated if the price drops to a level that I feel the game was worth. I have several games, on Steam and physical copies, that I have bought but never played because I pirated them long ago and feel that they were worth some amount of money. I won't name specific games, but these are games that I bought once they dropped to a price I thought they were worth, even though I already had them for free and even though I had already finished with them and likely would never play them again.

[Mister Jack]

I don't pirate new games, but if THIS is true, I might just have to start with the ps3.

 

http://www.techeye.net/security/sony-plugs-ps3-root-key-hole-with-blu-ray-serial-keys

[MottZilla]

I find piracy kind of disturbing these days. At first it was just kind of funny. Then it just grows and grows. There are tons of people out there with modded Xbox 360s (and now PS3s) who just pirate the shit out of all the games. This certainly hurts the industry. The best defense so far seems to be to make it annoying or otherwise a pain in the ass to keep up. I modded my Xbox 360 but never played enough games for it to be worth it. After getting the console banned I got another for free from a friend that I modded and then it now would be banned if I logged online with it. And it's all very silly since I barely played any games I hadn't purchased retail copies of. Same thing happened with my PS3. I modded it and yet only seem to play the games I bought.

 

Really the only piracy that I think is ok is after the game is out of the market. And I mean the retail market. Ebay and other 2nd hand outlets don't count. No need to pay some inflated collector's price for some old game when you could just pirate it and either way have zero impact on the industry.

 

On a similar note, GameStop is evil. Their massive reselling of games for huge profit hurts the industry too. I certainly agree with consumers having the right to sell their games when they are finished with them or decide they don't like them. But GameStop reaps huge benefits from this. That and just in general I hate GameStop.

[VicariousShaner]

I'll admit that I have pirated, and still to a lesser extent do pirate, but whether you believe me or not I actually do stick to the rule that I only pirate if I wouldn't buy it otherwise.

 

Yet you contradict yourself.

 

If you are not going to buy a game, yet you pirate it, it shows that you have enough interest in the title to bother playing it despite it's flaws. Besides, you dont pirate every single game that you are not interested in, do you?

[VicariousShaner]

 

On a similar note, GameStop is evil. Their massive reselling of games for huge profit hurts the industry too. I certainly agree with consumers having the right to sell their games when they are finished with them or decide they don't like them. But GameStop reaps huge benefits from this. That and just in general I hate GameStop.

 

So tell me, what shall they do instead to stop being "evil" as you call it? The problem lies less with Gamestop, and more with two big things, CD's and us, the people who buy these games from Gamestop.

 

Remember the time before hard drives when the memory of your game was stored on the cartridge itself? Well, now that is no longer, so when you beat a game you are encouraged to trade it in, and the sooner the better because the more you wait the more money you get in return. Although Gamestop is hurting the industry, I dont see it as this evil "take-over-the-world corporation selling games used just to hurt the industry on purpose, they are just taking advantage of what we, the buyers, decide to do.

[Enervation]

The one thing I find funny is that most people seem to think that piracy only exists on the PC and that it's basically nonexistent on any console.

[SixTwoSixFour]

The one thing I find funny is that most people seem to think that piracy only exists on the PC and that it's basically nonexistent on any console.

 

While that may not be the case, it's a fact that piracy is far, FAR more of an issue on PC than it is on consoles. PCs, it's as simple as downloading some stuff. Consoles, you have to do some real work to pirate- work that a lot of people don't know how to do.

[deanb]

Yet most folks know a guy who know a guy. Heck it's not even the PS1 era anymore where you had to know the guy who knows a guy who could chip your console.

Youtube exists, you just go online for full video instructions on how to replace your 360 drives firmware.

It may not be as huge as it is on PC, but the Torrent freak figures show it's only a quarter of PC's figures. 360 piracy is especially bad when you take into account it's almost on-par with the Wii, yet there's much less Wii's out there.

http://torrentfreak.com/call-of-duty-black-ops-most-pirated-game-of-2010-101228/

A console pirate is certainly more determined. They're no casual pirate for sure.

If a PC pirate grabs a game, hey like it or hate it they throw the file in the recycle bin and move on or go buy the game.

If a 360 pirate likes the game, what point is there in throwing away the disc you now have, and since you can't really go online with a hacked console, why buy the game when you can't get MP or Gamerpoints for it?

Anyway once you or your friend of a friend has tweaked your 360, all you need to do is burn ISO's which just needs nero, and Win7 has iso burning built in. Hardly a demanding task.

[Thursday Next]

I think the biggest barrier to entry for console piracy is that you have to give your console and some money to a shady character who flouts the law and expect them to return it to you, in working order, with the modification.

 

That's a pretty big leap of faith imho. I mean what are you going to do if the guy doesn't do the mod. He just takes your money, opens the case, voids your warranty and sends it back. You gonna go to the police and say "The guy I asked to illegally mod my console has ripped me off!"? Even if you get your money back, your warranty is toast.

[Yantelope]

While it may be possible for game companies to make more money if second hand sales were gone that doesn't exactly make it a fair argument to say that selling used games is wrong. I'm sure book companies would love to kill second hand sales but there just isn't a real good way to do it (well, until the kindle takes over). I'd feel more sympathetic to the moans of developers if this were some new problem that's cutting their profits to a fraction of what they once were but really it's more an argument of "stop doing this so we can make way more money by doing nothing."

[TheMightyEthan]

I'll admit that I have pirated, and still to a lesser extent do pirate, but whether you believe me or not I actually do stick to the rule that I only pirate if I wouldn't buy it otherwise.

Yet you contradict yourself.

 

If you are not going to buy a game, yet you pirate it, it shows that you have enough interest in the title to bother playing it despite it's flaws. Besides, you dont pirate every single game that you are not interested in, do you?

Way to take one sentence completely out of context, and then criticize it in a way that doesn't even apply.

 

[deanb]

I think the biggest barrier to entry for console piracy is that you have to give your console and some money to a shady character who flouts the law and expect them to return it to you, in working order, with the modification.

 

That's a pretty big leap of faith imho. I mean what are you going to do if the guy doesn't do the mod. He just takes your money, opens the case, voids your warranty and sends it back. You gonna go to the police and say "The guy I asked to illegally mod my console has ripped me off!"? Even if you get your money back, your warranty is toast.

 

Hadn't we covered similar regarding the question of "Whats to say the pirated game has a virus in it". Honour amongst thieves. You won't get much of a reputation, or if you're a modder; repeat business, if you go around fucking folks over. You could, but then when a friend of a friend is asking for someone to mod their console, they'll be told "Well I know a guy, but he fucks up the console n voids the warranty, don't go to him".

[TheMightyEthan]

The other thing is just only do it with someone you either know and trust, or someone you trust trusts. I doubt your best friend's cousin is going to screw you over, and like dean says if he is the type to screw you over your friend will know that and say don't go to him.

[MottZilla]

That was something else I found particularly with friends I knew that pirated 360 games. They would pirate everything. Didn't matter if the game wasn't a AAA title. They'd pirate it and play it. So yes they would pirate games they wouldn't buy, honestly. Which in my opinion, is a waste of time. People that pirate games like crazy can ruin gaming for themselves as they basically throw their standards out the window and become a gaming whore.

 

Generally I usually only play a few new games over a year. I skip most stuff that comes out, including multiplayer games that I feel are just a passing fad and not worth 60$. Pretty much there aren't enough awesome games I'm interested in that I would need to jump through hoops to pirate them to play them all.

 

I will point out that piracy is probably very appealing to kids with no income. When I was a kid I couldn't buy many games myself but I got to go to the video store and rent them alot. So pirating games through the internet just seems to be kids modern way of playing alot of games despite having no money. Not that it makes it ok or anything.

 

So tell me, what shall they do instead to stop being "evil" as you call it? The problem lies less with Gamestop, and more with two big things, CD's and us, the people who buy these games from Gamestop.

 

Remember the time before hard drives when the memory of your game was stored on the cartridge itself? Well, now that is no longer, so when you beat a game you are encouraged to trade it in, and the sooner the better because the more you wait the more money you get in return. Although Gamestop is hurting the industry, I dont see it as this evil "take-over-the-world corporation selling games used just to hurt the industry on purpose, they are just taking advantage of what we, the buyers, decide to do.

 

I guess you could say I blame them for being the device that enables people and encourages people to do this. Also I blame them for making money while not creating anything of value. They are just an asshole middleman. Used game stores never were exactly wonderful but they generally had a nice selection of titles including older titles. I don't ever recall it being like it is today which you mentioned. With a game like Fallout New Vegas which I bought (and unfortunately lost interest in) I should have gone to sell it as soon as I was done with it to recoup the maximum amount of money possible. This is because of a trend that only Nintendo doesn't follow, of reducing game prices not long after the game comes out. Maybe it's a long time in video game land, but in real time it can be as soon as a few months a game will go down in price by 1/3rd its original cost. This may seem good but I find it bad for me actually giving a shit about playing any new non-multiplayer games. It's been this way for awhile.

 

On my Xbox 360, nearly every single game I bought is multiplayer. Assassin's Creed, Fallout 3, Fallout NV, and Dead Rising are the only ones that are not. And I probably got burned on all of them. I paid full price for all but AC which was $40 for one week when I bought it. Now other than FO NV which is still new, all these games can be bought for far less. I'm not sure there is anything to be done about this, but I just wanted to complain that this is bullshit and makes me uninterested in buying games. I'm most interested in buying games that are retro perhaps in part because of the throw-away nature of modern games.

Edited January 27, 2011 by MottZilla

[deanb]

I'm sure I mentioned in this thread the concept of physical piracy

http://i.materialise.com/blog/entry/3d-printing-piracy-3d-printing-the-settlers-of-catan

Told ya so.

[Johnny]

I've not pirated any music for ages. Spotify has pretty much seen to that.

Too bad spotify only has about half of what I listen to, and often in bad quality.

Until there is a spotify-style service for us with more obscure music tastes, I'll keep on storing a local music library on my media hard drive.

 

have you people not heard of grooveshark? stream music on your comp set up a favorite list, playlist whatever. can't find what you want? upload it! taadaaa

I have heard of and use Grooveshark.

The interface is clunky as all hell and at peak times songs can load really slowly, but it's good for playing music when I can't access my media hard drive for some reason (at a friend's place or some such)

[Enervation]

The one thing I find funny is that most people seem to think that piracy only exists on the PC and that it's basically nonexistent on any console.

 

While that may not be the case, it's a fact that piracy is far, FAR more of an issue on PC than it is on consoles. PCs, it's as simple as downloading some stuff. Consoles, you have to do some real work to pirate- work that a lot of people don't know how to do.

 

Yes, but the annoying thing is people simply turn a blind eye to the fact that it even exists. A lot of the people I converse with seemed to have a steadfast belief it's a PC only issue.

[Vintage]

I've not pirated any music for ages. Spotify has pretty much seen to that.

Too bad spotify only has about half of what I listen to, and often in bad quality.

Until there is a spotify-style service for us with more obscure music tastes, I'll keep on storing a local music library on my media hard drive.

 

have you people not heard of grooveshark? stream music on your comp set up a favorite list, playlist whatever. can't find what you want? upload it! taadaaa

I have heard of and use Grooveshark.

The interface is clunky as all hell and at peak times songs can load really slowly, but it's good for playing music when I can't access my media hard drive for some reason (at a friend's place or some such)

 

they load slowly and its clunky? cmon! i have a shitty connection 300k/s max and during peak times I've NEVER had a song load slow for me and I've been using this thing for a year now! the whole thing is smooth as butter to! i don't know how you got clunky slow loading songs because I've uploaded a shit ton of music, while playing songs and searching for music to set up a playlist and nothing lagged once.

 

maybe it's your browser?

[Mal]

On the thing about getting cheated by a modder. Back during the PS1 era in 8th Ave mini Chinatown in Brooklyn, NY... modding PS1 was a business for one store. You can get your PS1 modded to play burnt disks for something like $50 or $100. I forget the actual price but you can get your PS1 back by the hour or even half hour. It will work since they will test it out for you. Then... you can browse their collection of burnt games for sale for $20.

 

Let's say that dude made a nice profit for his skills and connections. Later in '00 or so, he. Swapped to a legit business for legal reasons. Same goes to other video game stores that sold burnt games.

 

Now, this situation is pretty damn sweet for the buyer and massively sweet for the seller. All the parent had to do for the kid was to front the initial money to get the console and mod and then the kid, like me, could get a game whenever he pleased when he has $20 which was not hard to do for a Chinese kid who get red envelopes on CNY, birthday and Christmas. So I can get games when I wanted in just 10 minutes. Five minute walk to the store beats going to a legit store by using the subway/bus which can take an hour or two one way. Then there was the $50 price tag on the games.

 

Needless to say, I amassed quite a big burnt game collection. HOWEVER, I did get legit copies of the games at times. Come on, a legit video game store was like a candy shop with all the wonderful colors compared to flipping through a binder.

 

Now that I think of it, the SNES was similar. Just swap disks with floppies. Not sure on the costs since that was pretty much before I was a buyer. My cousins though had BOXES of floppies of mainstream games from the US and JP, and obscure games as well. So I think each game was pretty damn cheap. Again, whoever did that made massive profit as well.

 

Now in this day of age with broadband and burners in pretty much everybody houses... everyone can DIY.

 

... now I want to somehow get my Xbox to play pirated games... JP games. Mainly Metal Wolf Chaos. Thank you internet!

[Johnny]

they load slowly and its clunky? cmon! i have a shitty connection 300k/s max and during peak times I've NEVER had a song load slow for me and I've been using this thing for a year now! the whole thing is smooth as butter to! i don't know how you got clunky slow loading songs because I've uploaded a shit ton of music, while playing songs and searching for music to set up a playlist and nothing lagged once.

 

maybe it's your browser?

I have a 100mbit connection and have tried using all the popular browsers. Most of the time it works, but sometimes it just refuses to work.

And no it's not smooth as butter, not if you're used to using an actual media player on your PC.

 

I tend to use a customized Foobar2000 layout that gives me access to my whole music library with a snap. Besides, even Grooveshark is lacking a small but significant part of my music library.

 

Not to mention the inconsistent quality and wrongly tagged files.

[Yantelope]

[Johnny]

You forgot the "developer releases broken version on PC" and "developer ignores sales numbers and focuses only on piracy numbers" parts.

[Yantelope]

You forgot the "developer releases broken version on PC" and "developer ignores sales numbers and focuses only on piracy numbers" parts.

 

yeah, there also needs to be "Draconian DRM implemented" --> "Draconian DRM cracked the next day"

Edited January 31, 2011 by Yantelope

[Cyber Rat]

 

 

I'd like to say that that is utter and complete bull. You know where pirated versions of Dead Space 2 first appeared? Consoles, three days before release. You know when a working pirate version for the PC came out? 3 days ago.