Johnny Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 Eh. Change the "You are a thief" column to "You are a pirate and also a douchebag". No need to call anything theft when it's clearly not, just because it's douchebag-like. But, of course, the internet has to divide things into easily definable sets of good and evil. Because we're apparently too fucking dumb to recognize grey zones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I don't know if you can justify a statement like, "I didn't like it at all, but I played it all." Since you didn't pay for it, you should be able to put it down without any consequence and move on. I don't think the people that don't enjoy a pirated game actually complete it. I have tons of games I like that I own and have yet to complete, spending my time forcing my way through something I don't like and have no investment in would be an even harder task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 But, of course, the internet has to divide things into easily definable sets of good and evil. Because we're apparently too fucking dumb to recognize grey zones. Why would piracy fall into a grey zone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I- uh. I'm sorry. Are you saying that piracy is a purely good thing, or that it's a purely evil thing? I honestly don't see how it could possibly not be considered a grey area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted August 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I'm not saying anything, I'm asking why it's a grey area according to you? I would like to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 There's just... too many variables. It's hard to clearly define piracy broadly as good or bad because there's so many different reasons to pirate and ways to go about it. Everything from pirating to demo, pirating because you don't feel like paying, to pirating because you simply can't afford. Maybe there's someone out there that pirated Oblivion in order to afford paying for a few much more needing indie games. I mean, there's people pirating stuff for... let's call them "political" reasons, like because they dislike Ubisoft's DRM schemes. This terrible structured post brought to you by way too little sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I still find it very hard to belive the "demo" argument. It's either worth your time or it isn't. If it's worth your time then it's worth your money. It seems to me the argument of "I wasn't going to buy it anyway." is simple justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I still find it very hard to belive the "demo" argument. It's either worth your time or it isn't. If it's worth your time then it's worth your money. Which would be where you then step in and buy the game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 To be more specific, I haven' felt like I didn't have enough information to make an educated decision about purchasing a game in years such that I needed to "pirate a demo". If I have enough interest to play a game I spend my $15-20 on it. If it's not that great then I'm not really out a ton of cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 You spend your $15-$20? What if it's a $60 game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlyingGerbil Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 if you're not sure you'll like it, wait until it is $15-$20? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 You wouldn't try to sell a car without letting the buyer drive it first. And honestly Yantelope that you can afford to drop 20 bucks on every game that interests you doesn't mean that everybody else can. I sure as hell can't. If it's worth your time then it's worth your money. Not if you have more time than money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 If I'm not positive I'll like it I wont spend $60 on it. It's really rare that I spend a full $60 on a game. Also, I know everyone can't spend $20 on every game that interests them but I also know that with the advent of steam people are complaining that they have so many games the can't finish them all. I find myself in this boat and as a result I have more content than time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 You wouldn't try to sell a car without letting the buyer drive it first. And honestly Yantelope that you can afford to drop 20 bucks on every game that interests you doesn't mean that everybody else can. I sure as hell can't. If it's worth your time then it's worth your money. Not if you have more time than money. If you can't afford it then you don't do it. Gaming is a privilege, not a right. This is the bit I really can't wrap my head around. What entitles you to pirate when others either pay or go without? I've not always had a well paid job, sometimes big game releases have happened and I've had to watch them pass me by because I couldn't afford to buy them. I never at any point thought that it would be ok to just pirate them instead so I don't get why you and others here do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm sure you've had this explained before: I (and many pirates) see it as this: if it doesn't hurt anyone, I don't really need any justification apart from "I want to." That established rules say I can't does not persuade me morally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm sure you've had this explained before: I (and many pirates) see it as this: if it doesn't hurt anyone, I don't really need any justification apart from "I want to." That established rules say I can't does not persuade me morally. That's why I have a real personal issue with many pirates. I was raised to believe that taking something that doesn't belong to you is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I was raised that as well. But I don't take the lessons my parents taught me at face value. I was also raised to believe physical violence is ALWAYS wrong, no matter the situation. This lead to problems when I didn't defend myself from bullies in my early school years. I would say depriving someone of an object unless I desperately need said object is wrong. Pirating a game I wouldn't afford anyways is copying something without depriving the copyright owner of anything. I really don't see the problem. It really comes down to this for me: hurting other people is in most cases wrong. If I'm not hurting anyone by doing it... Well, you might as well tell me I'm not allowed to have longer than average hair because some unreasonable rule says I can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Are people still on this assumption that despite many of our difficulties in completing the games we own that we pirate and play games to completion, even when not enjoying them? My personal threshold for "I'll buy it and if it's shit not much lost" is about £5. Which also works well for shitty meals too for folks who apparently buy £40 a pop meals. ("you wouldn't try a meal at a restaurant and decide not to pay for it" argument kinda sucks when you realise the large gap in price) There has been a distinct decline in the availability of demos of late yet the price has still remained at £40. Which is about one of the largest purchases you can make these days without moving onto hardware n furniture. Books are about £6-8, DVDs are about £10, Blu-rays for £13-15, music is £10, games are £40. You can flick through a book in-store(or "look inside" on Amazon), you can hear an album on the radio, watch a film in the cinema/TV. But games, despite demanding a ludicrously high price in comparison, offer little in the way of making a more certain purchase. Reviews aren't much help when 95% of games are above average and trailers don't really do much. Also why the fuck do you think I like Gaikai so much? We'll finally get demos and the publishers actually have the words painted out for them "THIS IS AN ADVERTISEMENT AND MARKETING THING" so they go right along with it. I know EA is currently tooting their horn on the DA2 Gaikia ad they're running right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) With all the reviews (as many as 80 or so for big titles), gameplay videos, youtube playthroughs and forums to discuss games it's easy to know if a game is garbage or not before you buy it without playing it. I've also seen plenty of movies that I didn't much care for and never got a refund back for my time. For my wife and I to go to a movie it's as much as $14 a ticket if it's in 3D. The cheapest is if you go early on a saturday and maybe you'll get in for around $7 per ticket. Still, $14 for two tickets is about the same as $15-20 for a cheap game. I don't pirate a movie because I'm not sure if I'll like it and I probably wouldn't pay to go watch a movie after I'd already seen it so I don't believe pirates really run out and drop $60 on a game they've already pirated. In fact, that's a great question, how many people here have ever paid full price for a game they've pirated and I'm not talking about picking it up for $5 from a steam sale or bargain bin several months after you pirated it. Edited August 9, 2011 by Yantelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 That it's enough for you to decide does not make it enough for others. I find it quite baffling that you're still acting like your point of view is the only valid one on that subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 You're telling me that you can't gain enough information about a game to make an informed decision without pirating it? Based on what? Back up your opinion. It's no different than anything else in life. You can't tell if you'd like a roller coaster without riding it but you don't sneak in the back seat. With pretty much everything in life there's no guarantees. I'm just a little surprised because there was a time in my life when I downloaded a game or two but I never tried to justify it to anyone. I just thought that if I had more money I probably would have dropped the $20 on it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 It is not my OPINION that I sometimes have trouble deciding if a game is worth it or not without playing it first. It is just how it is. If you don't believe me, let me give you a concrete example: I thought Oblivion was gonna be flipping amazing when it came out based on trailers and reviews. I purchased it based off of that. I hate that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangelove Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 "Testing" everything in life before you buy it isn't a right. That's a sad mentality to have. You can't bite an apple at the store and decide not to take it. There are either samples out there or there aren't. If theyre not, youre going to have to risk it and buy the apple or you know......you dont get the apple. Simple as that. And I know, digital stuff doesn't deprive anyone of anything because it is infinite, but what kind of ego do you have to think youre entitled to these 100 million dollar projects for free while others pay for them? Do you think theyre all idiots for paying like theyre supposed to? For giving money to the people whoa re offering them a service they want? I just dont get how you can perfectly justify it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 It's pretty sad how many offensive assumptions you're making in that post, strangelove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangelove Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Im just asking questions. Can you answer them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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