Piracy

[Thursday Next]

I don't like it when games say "START button." It makes me feel like I'm being yelled at.

 

All PS games do this. ALL! OF! THEM!

 

(Also Crysis 2 on PC )

Edited April 6, 2011 by Thursday Next

[Mal]

Why does it seem like that I derail topics a lot?

 

Anyways, Thursday, going multiplatform is a fine thing to do. Hell, it makes sense to do so since there seems to be a massive graphic engine war brewing and that there are much money to be made with going multiplatform.

 

Its the "little" things that Crytek has done, as said by the others, that made me say "tainted". I'm sure that Crysis 2 is a good game but Crytek done stuff to hurt my view about them. I'm waiting for their next game to pass final judgement.

 

And no, no pirating Crysis 2 for me. I'm waiting for it to go $30 or below before I get it. I was planning on a first day buy but... yeah. Warning signs went up and I just watched it slide downhill. Its almost like watching a good sport star start getting wobbly. Its almost like the player want to throw the game...

[McBeeferton]

I would just like to say...

 

That Johnny tried to pirate AC: Brotherhood... and he considered buying the game because he couldn't get it to work right.

 

DRM. It... works?!

 

AHHHH!

 

Nah, surely there's an explanation...

Edited April 9, 2011 by SirBeefychu

[Johnny]

I eventually decided against it. And I would have legally purchased AC2 if it weren't for the DRM - I know a place that sells AC2 white edition (PC) for roughly 20 dollars.

[McBeeferton]

This thread finally died?

 

 

Beefy demands more outrageous posts.

[deanb]

So here's one for you.

 

I've got Portal 2 on PS3 n Steam. I have 2 housemates, both with gaming PC's and Tom with a PS3.

Now Tom has borrowed and completed Portal 2 on PS3. Ben has made signs that he'd like to borrow Portal 2, but lacking a PS3 he's a bit stumped on that. As you're all aware Steam, and most PC games, aren't exactly as easy to lend as console titles. So I said if he wanted to "borrow" my PC copy I could just grab a copy off the net. He wouldn't have any of it. I pointed out how he's not going to be paying for it either way, whether it was possible to lend my game or not. He'd be fine with a borrowed PS3 copy, but because the Portal 2 copy would be "pirated/cracked" it's a no no. It was certainly nothing to do with it being on PC since I borrowed Toms copy of Witcher before buying my own. And we've all used Bens copy of HoMM:V before with cracks to play on LAN.

He point seems to be because I can't share it out, I shouldn't. I just told him how in a decades time he'll be eating his words when more things become digital.

 

tbh I'm thinking he's just not wanting to play Portal 2, but it seems odd since he's definitely made gestures suggesting he does.

Also his anti-piracy stance is pretty new, since he's been fine with it in the past. He'd managed to play all the way through borderlands before he got it on steam for one.

 

Anyway, what are others peoples thoughts on this matter? Would you borrow PC version of Portal 2 if in his place?

[CorgiShinobi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but basically you're saying you would be giving him a pirated copy of Portal 2, right? You can't give him your legally bought copy since we're talking Steam/PC.

 

See, I can understand his string of logic. It's similar to what a friend of mine did when playing Dead Space 2 on PC. He was playing a friend's copy on PC, but he began to notice how many PC games the guy had on his laptop. It turns out all the games were pirated. My friend got halfway through the game and stopped.

 

When you let a friend borrow something, the friend may see it as, "Hey, this was purchased by my friend and so there's no illegal activity associated with me playing his copy he bought at a store or online."

 

He probably does want to play Portal 2, but at the same time he doesn't want to feel guilty for playing the game. We all borrow things and we would live in a draconian society if we had laws against friends lending purchased goods to one another.

 

EDIT: Forgive me Cyber Rat, but I'm going to attempt an analogy.

 

Perhaps see it as a pack of gum. You can lend your friend a strip of gum and that would be common courtesy that you would be willing to share. However, the friend asks you where you got the gum.

 

If you stole the pack of gum, the idea of them not purchasing their own gum isn't the problem, but that they would be partaking in a stolen product. Basically, somewhere along the lines of a tainted good.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Atomsk88

[deanb]

Thing is if I had a PC version of Portal 2 on disc to lend him, he'd be absolutely fine. But because I can't it's suddenly wrong. I legally own Portal 2, it's not like I'm lending him a pirated copy of game (like with Borderlands ).

See that's the thing, he was fine with grabbing my "demo" of Borderlands, and he stayed up all night playing to completion. But he's offended that I'd even suggest he do similar with Portal 2.

[CorgiShinobi]

Thing is if I had a PC version of Portal 2 on disc to lend him, he'd be absolutely fine. But because I can't it's suddenly wrong. I legally own Portal 2, it's not like I'm lending him a pirated copy of game (like with Borderlands ).

See that's the thing, he was fine with grabbing my "demo" of Borderlands, and he stayed up all night playing to completion. But he's offended that I'd even suggest he do similar with Portal 2.

True, and I would say since you do have the game that it's a justified method to share since you can't lend him your copy without handing over your gaming PC.

 

There's a long tradition of "borrowing" amongst friends, but pirated material can be a grey area. Before the big Napster fiasco, people would share music left and right. Now music can be a touchy area and people want to make sure they're within the right when they share their digital material.

 

EDIT: Oh, and movies too. I didn't realize this, and maybe it's different across the pond, but you can't watch a movie outside with a reasonably large screen (i.e. laptop, televison, etc). Supposedly that would be a public showing of copyrighted material and so you must watch the movie inside.

 

I only know this because I've had friends get in trouble with law enforcement when watching a movie on a laptop outside their dorm.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Atomsk88

[TheMightyEthan]

EDIT: Oh, and movies too. I didn't realize this, and maybe it's different across the pond, but you can't watch a movie outside with a reasonably large screen (i.e. laptop, televison, etc). Supposedly that would be a public showing of copyrighted material and so you must watch the movie inside.

 

I only know this because I've had friends get in trouble with law enforcement when watching a movie on a laptop outside their dorm.

Were they actually charged/convicted of anything, or was it just a cop telling them to stop? If it was just a cop I'm inclined to say that that cop just didn't know wtf they were talking about, because watching a movie that you own on your laptop is perfectly fine, even if you're outside.

 

Now, if you got one of those giant inflatable projector screen things and set it up outside the dorm, you might run into issues...

[deanb]

Police stations, car workshops etc are required to get a entertainment license if they have a radio playing as it is considered a public performance(since it can be heard by the public).

So...yeah, I reckon we probably have a similar rule with the movies n laptops too.

[TheMightyEthan]

See, I don't think that's true here.

[CorgiShinobi]

The cop may have been full of it, but I can't find anything online that states anything. It may be one of those "dumb" laws that are rarely ever enforced. He gave them a warning and said for them to go inside is all.

 

Slow night perhaps?

[Mal]

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/05/biggest-bittorrent-case/

 

With movies but its related to what you folks are talking about over here. Now...

 

Atomsk, I see folks watching anime and stuff in the library all the time. I don't see the cops stopping them. Then you have the mobile tv/movie stuff on phones and computers/ Whats the point in those stuff if it is illegal? Perhaps your friend was watching without ear-buds/headphones? However, I recall a commercial showing a girl watching a movie/tv show on her phone/tablet without any visible ear-buds/headphones in the subway. Then again, its a commercial... so it don't have to be 100% legally correct.

 

So yeah, slow day for the cop. Besides, I think its just an excuse to get them to move, just to enforce some other rule or law.

[TheMightyEthan]

The cop may have been full of it, but I can't find anything online that states anything. It may be one of those "dumb" laws that are rarely ever enforced. He gave them a warning and said for them to go inside is all.

 

Slow night perhaps?

Well the law in question is that it's a copyright violation to give a public performance without a license to do so. I haven't ever studied copyright law, but in the areas of law I have studied "public" usually means that basically any random person is invited to come participate, though charging a cover doesn't make something not-public, and neither does an age limit, etc. 17 USC 1 is the US copyright code, and section 101 defines a public performance as

 

to perform or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered

So watching a laptop on the grass in front of a dorm does fall under the literal meaning of the statute. However, I can't imagine any federal court would ever enforce it that way. The obvious intent of that definition is to prevent someone from showing a copyrighted work to a large number of people, and watching a movie on your own laptop does not implicate that purpose. The number of people who can watch a laptop at once is very limited, and if people started gathering to watch I'm sure your friend would have gotten very uncomfortable very quickly and stopped the movie or gone inside or something.

 

So, having done a little more research, my conclusion is that one of two things happened:

 

1) The cop got overly literal with the term "public performance", not based on anything other than his own reading of the rule, or

 

2) The cop was bored and felt like being a dick. Possibly both.

 

Also, a good rule of thumb is to take anything a cop says about what the law is with a MASSIVE grain of salt. They have an immense amount of practical experience, but almost no formal training about what the laws mean.

 

Also, customary disclaimer: none of what I've said here is legal advice, it's all just for general discussion purposes.

 

*Edit* - Wow, I wrote a lot more than I intended to when I started.

[Thursday Next]

Sounds like a novel way of dealing with a nuisance. I'd like to see this rule applied to all the wankers on public transport who think I'd like to hear the shitty hip hop crackling out of the pathetic tinny speaker on their knobby iPhone.

[Yantelope]

Already trumped.

 

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/44272/Largest-BitTorrent-prosecution-begins

 

The anonymous bittorrent clients are going to be gaining momentum soon methinks.

 

(oh, maybe this is the same story, sorry.)

Edited May 11, 2011 by Yantelope

[P4: Gritty Reboot]

"Piracy these days on PC is probably less problematic than second-hand sales on the Xbox," declared lead Fable III combat designer Mike West. "I've been working on PC games for many years and piracy is always a problem. There are a lot of honest people out there as well, and if they like your game they'll buy it."

 

West shared more thoughts on piracy as well here.

[Yantelope]

I still love how legally reselling a game is considered a "problem".

[McBeeferton]

It wouldn't be a problem if they resold their games at least digitally for a cheap price.

[TheFlyingGerbil]

I think he means problem from a lost revenue point of view, and it is a lot of lost revenue.

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, it is a problem for the publishers/developers in terms of how much money they're making. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's not a "problem" from their point of view.

[RockyRan]

I think he means problem from a lost revenue point of view, and it is a lot of lost revenue.

 

Revenue not gained =/= revenue "lost".

 

It's a problem I'm seeing with publishers. People whine a lot about entitlement issues with gamers, yet I'm starting to see some blatant signs of entitlement issues with publishers as. They love to think anyone who plays their game automatically owes them money, which isn't at all the case in this or any industry. Used game sales, borrowing/lending games, trading, etc., is neither illegal nor morally reprehensible, and I highly doubt it's nearly as much of a problem as publishers like to make it out to be.

[Yantelope]

 

Revenue not gained =/= revenue "lost".

 

 

This.

 

It's like Apple putting new proprietary HDD cables and firmware so they can charge way more for larger HDDs in their computers. They're artificially creating demand and increasing their revenue. They're not recouping "lost" revenue.

[TheMightyEthan]

I agree that not every dollar spent on used games is a dollar they could have made on a new sale, but they are losing some amount of revenue out to used games. It's just impossible to know how much. Just like with piracy.