Cyber Rat Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Video games and software are not: apples, cars, rides, events, hardware, tools, movies, cinemas, theaters... Just because you pay for all those things, doesn't mean they are comparable, otherwise I'd start asking everyone "How can you eat chicken? Would eat a human?" based on the fact that both have two legs and breathe. Not saying that piracy is good or bad, but what the fuck? Stop using comparisons like fucking twats. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Totally agree with Strangelove. You have no right to play the games unless you have paid for them. "It doesn't hurt anyone" is a weak argument because you can never prove that you would not have bought it were you unable to pirate it. Given that you have already dishonestly appropriated software, in my mind your credibility is shot so your assurances that the publisher lost nothing holds no water. You have no way of providing me with any assurance that any game you pirated was not a lost sale, so it is quite possibly that developers are being hurt. Further to this, every pirated game is counted towards or used as an excuse for lost sales by publishers so they keep prices higher on games and DLC, and increase onerous restrictive DRM, so you are in fact hurting fellow gamers who actually support the industry you leach off of. If you say that you only do it because "it doesn't hurt anyone" then you must be doing some logical acrobatics because I don't see how you and others getting something for nothing doesn't negatively affect me at least indirectly. That said, I'm wasting my time here. You get stuff free and you justify it to yourself. That's not gonna change. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 There is no one to one comparison but it's fair on the level that sneaking into a movie doesn't deprive anyone from anything either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Strangelove, I'm pretty sure you realize that things can be offensive even though you phrase it as a question. A good example would be "Are you fucking retarded or something?" For that matter, forgive me for not taking the arguments of someone who open by calling my opinion "sad" seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Stop using comparisons like fucking twats. Ummm... deliberate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Videogames are like a box of chocolates. ...I like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangelove Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Strangelove, I'm pretty sure you realize that things can be offensive even though you phrase it as a question. A good example would be "Are you fucking retarded or something?" For that matter, forgive me for not taking the arguments of someone who open by calling my opinion "sad" seriously. Im not questioning your intelligence, im questioning your morals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 again I would like to ask of any of you have dropped $60 on a game after pirating it. If not then the whole demo argument is invalid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 No it's not. Apart from a few VERY special titles, I'm not likely to buy ANY game for 60 dollars. There are however MANY games I've bought on their at the time going price very shortly after pirating to try it. That should count. Im not questioning your intelligence, im questioning your morals. Because it's only questions of intelligence that can be phrased in offensive manners. Totally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 For my wife and I to go to a movie it's as much as $14 a ticket if it's in 3D. The cheapest is if you go early on a saturday and maybe you'll get in for around $7 per ticket. Still, $14 for two tickets is about the same as $15-20 for a cheap game. Firstly $7 is £4.25 which comes under the whole "if it's £5 I don't have many qualms with it". I probably wouldn't pay to go watch a movie after I'd already seen it so I don't believe pirates really run out and drop $60 on a game they've already pirated. Once again you're assuming a pirated game is played to completion. how many people here have ever paid full price for a game they've pirated (EU release was 22nd) I can dig around my GAME receipts too if you want? (Sup Com also pops up in Steam Transactions but it's down as "Free" as it's a disc bought game) I also pirated n bought DA:O too. I didn't pirate or buy DA2. Buuut: http://dragonage.bioware.com/info/demo Hey guess what! there's a demo! No figure out what I didn't pirate or buy it. "Testing" everything in life before you buy it isn't a right. That's a sad mentality to have. You can't bite an apple at the store and decide not to take it. There are either samples out there or there aren't. If theyre not, youre going to have to risk it and buy the apple or you know......you dont get the apple. Simple as that. An apple costs a few pence. A game can cost many times that. I won't buy a dozen crates of apples without at least some assurances. And I know, digital stuff doesn't deprive anyone of anything because it is infinite, but what kind of ego do you have to think youre entitled to these 100 million dollar projects for free while others pay for them? Do you think theyre all idiots for paying like theyre supposed to? For giving money to the people whoa re offering them a service they want? I just dont get how you can perfectly justify it. Once again with the assumptions. And if we want to talk the root of DRM we're really in the wrong thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Stop using comparisons like fucking twats. Ummm... deliberate? Yes I'll let you think about the implications. There is no one to one comparison but it's fair on the level that sneaking into a movie doesn't deprive anyone from anything either. Your argument is invalid. It can deprive a person of a seat. Also, going to a movie requires entering private property, using services like the snack bar, the restroom, the seats and so on. It's closer to a dine and dash than piracy. And it's not completely dine and dash either. Why don't you take a look at piracy separately (like some people in this thread have, regardless of "side taken") and comment on it like that? Do you need to compare it to sneaking into places or stealing physical objects? Why doesn't anyone quote copyright laws, which would make more sense? Edited August 9, 2011 by Cyber Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) I suppose you could have a situation in which you did deprive someone but that doesn't change my situation in which you don't. If a theater did give you the option to pay for your movie after you watched it if you thought it was worth your time do you think they'd make more money or less money? The whole pirate demo argument boils down to "I'm trying to spare myself disappointment by acquiring something that doesn't belong to me." Edited August 9, 2011 by Yantelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Stop using comparisons like fucking twats. Ummm... deliberate? Yes I'll let you think about the implications. I'll believe you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 I suppose you could have a situation in which you did deprive someone but that doesn't change my situation in which you don't. If a theater did give you the option to pay for your movie after you watched it if you thought it was worth your time do you think they'd make more money or less money? According to you, it is bad if you pirate a product before you decide to invest in it, but it is not bad if a company demands that you pay for their bad product before you know it is bad. IE, you know that a lot of cinemas would go out of business if people were to choose to pay after they've watched a movie. This would, of course, happen because the majority of people are the scum of the Earth and wouldn't pay regardless, but that also means that people who would pay for a good movie in that case are getting screwed over. So, in your example of theaters, it is alright for companies to ask for money and time for bad products, because they have a business to run, but individuals who can't afford it or are careful with their money are shunned by society? So, we are ok with companies being conniving and deceitful, because they just want to run a business, but the fellow man for whose reasons no-one ever asks is compared to a thief, a sinner by most religions. We are giving power to the companies. You are giving power to the companies. You say you fight for moral causes, yet you support false idols. You people disgust me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Who is being deceitful? If a game or movie really is garbage then the reviews will reflect that. Whether your palette is so refined that you hate movies or games that receive positive reviews is in my opinion a personal problem and even if you don't like something what entitles you to a refund? You're never guaranteed to enjoy anything in life. In any case, generally people are not trying to sell you a poor experience. I don't see how being careful with your money and sneaking into a theater are related. If you're going to talk about the poor then we can have the age old argument about whether it's wrong to steal bread if you're starving but I don't think that's the same as pirating a videogame. Edited August 9, 2011 by Yantelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangelove Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Its not up to the movie company to know if youll like the film or not. Despite what you might think, Hollywood isnt in the business of making "bad" movies. They make movies that most people will like. They arent being deceitful because theyre not lying to you. Its up to you to read reviews, watch trailers, and talk to friends who have already seen the movie. even then its no guarantee youll like it. Companies arent mind readers. Its a risk for them and for you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 You people disgust me. My answer is that I just don't buy all that many games. Buying games at full retail is silly. Here in the US we have outlets like GameFly or Blockbuster to rent console games. Occasionally my fiancee will borrow games from friends (I've never had friends with similar tastes) and plus there's always checking online reviews from places you trust (e.g. not IGN) No one says you have to buy the game the first day. In fact, you don't really have to have the game at all. In capitalism you as the consumer hold the cards in that you can choose to walk away and not purchase the product. Come to think of it, I don't know the last time I bought a new game on Day 1. Pokemon, I think? Most games I buy for under $20 and quite a few under $10. Call me cheap but I just know where I am in the market. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Its not up to the movie company to know if youll like the film or not. Despite what you might think, Hollywood isnt in the business of making "bad" movies. They make movies that most people will like. They arent being deceitful because theyre not lying to you. Its up to you to read reviews, watch trailers, and talk to friends who have already seen the movie. even then its no guarantee youll like it. Companies arent mind readers. Its a risk for them and for you. They are expecting you to pay regardless of whether you like it or not, or whether it is objectively good or bad. How is that morally alright? I don't see how being careful with your money and sneaking into a theater are related. If you're going to talk about the poor then we can have the age old argument about whether it's wrong to steal bread if you're starving but I don't think that's the same as pirating a videogame. Oh, so that's not alright as a comparison? See, I thought apples, cars, theaters, joyrides and such were ok when compared to piracy, but stealing bread? Damn, you must be on some heavy crack if you're comparing it to something from a bakery, huh? Edited August 9, 2011 by Cyber Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 You people disgust me. My answer is that I just don't buy all that many games. Buying games at full retail is silly. Here in the US we have outlets like GameFly or Blockbuster to rent console games. Occasionally my fiancee will borrow games from friends (I've never had friends with similar tastes) and plus there's always checking online reviews from places you trust (e.g. not IGN) No one says you have to buy the game the first day. In fact, you don't really have to have the game at all. In capitalism you as the consumer hold the cards in that you can choose to walk away and not purchase the product. Come to think of it, I don't know the last time I bought a new game on Day 1. Pokemon, I think? Most games I buy for under $20 and quite a few under $10. Call me cheap but I just know where I am in the market. And this is what I would define as "being careful with your money". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Damn, you must be on some heavy crack if you're comparing it to something from a bakery, huh? I just mean, does not having the money affect the morality of the action. If you're too poor to afford a videogame (don't know how you got the console or PC) then does that make piracy okay? It could be inferred from your statement "but individuals who can't afford it or are careful with their money are shunned by society?". that your financial situation affects the morality of your actions. Is that not what you meant? It's a faulty comparison, just like every single one in this thread. You cannot compare it to pirating games because it is not pirating games. That's my point, so I'm not even going to defend the "it's like the poor stealing bread". That's why I'm disgusted by most comparisons here because there seems to be an imaginary subjective line drawn which decides which crimes are like pirating video games and which aren't. Edited August 9, 2011 by Cyber Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Then comparisons aside, does your financial situation change the morality of your actions? Does not having money change whether it's right or wrong to illegally download a game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Then comparisons aside, does your financial situation change the morality of your actions? Does not having money change whether it's right or wrong to illegally download a game? To answer you first question, no, it doesn't. Sadly, we have yet to determine whether piracy is not alright only on a legal level, or whether it is morally bad as well. Just to be clear, I agree it is illegal, I mean, it's fact, it's not a matter on whether I can agree or not. Whether piracy is morally alright is a completely different question and I'm not sure what the answer to that would be. Edited August 9, 2011 by Cyber Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Probably because we're discussing this but apparently there's a demo for the new Driver game on the consoles but the PC version is not getting a demo. Edited August 9, 2011 by Yantelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted August 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yea, I just read that. I've been reading a lot of people say stuff like "I'm not even motivated to pirate it". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hehehe... Driver, I liked the first one... the rest though... dayum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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