Cyber Rat Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) I'm not saying he's not being honest about his actions (although that's totally not beneath him), I'm saying his reasons way of justification is bull. He's trying to find a righteous reason to justify him not paying for a game, and while he may believe in that reason, to any onlooker, it looks like bull and just making excuses. Edited December 12, 2011 by Cyber Rat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) @Johnny: The reason people are taking issue with you is because you say that you disagree with the practices that the company engage in, but you still use their products. If you're going to make a moral stand against a company's practices then you ought to carry that through and boycott their products altogether. Exactly. I can get behind pirating a game for demoing purposes, but playing the game, deciding to buy it and then changing your mind after a scare-tactic? People are supposed to believe your self-righteous reasons after that? You're implying that he's fibbing to get games for free. While I do not like it when someone decides to play through a game to completion and then not pay the creator, Johnny's hardly the kind of person that would lie to make his actions appear to be justified. He may do something that I don't like, but he's not going to be dishonest about it. Not accusing Johnny of dishonesty (beyond dishonestly acquiring a copy of the game of course...). It's you who is inferring that. I'm just that his argument that it is a stand against tyranny appears somewhat undermined by the fact that he benefits from his protest. Going for a somewhat clumsy analogy, if you turn up to an anti-fur protest wearing a mink coat you aren't going to get away with telling people that it is ok cos it's freezing out and you stole it from the local mink coat shop because you hate how evil they are... It's also a bit odd to get up in arms about a company who made a game that you pirated sending out letters to people who they suspect of pirating the game. I mean you can't exactly say that they are way off the mark in thinking that some people may have pirated the game can you? Edited December 12, 2011 by Thursday Next 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgi Duke of Frisbee Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 All right, I see your point. But as a day-one purchaser of The Witcher 2, I'm cross about their all-out assault, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 And I totally agree (and was pretty unequivocal about my opinion earlier) that this carpet bomb emailing is a deplorable practice. However there's an old saying that goes: If someone does something that is perceived as unjust, you doing something else that is generally regarded as bad behaviour neither repairs their wrongdoing nor absolves you of your own misdeeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Aka. "Two wrongs don't make a right." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excel_excel Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I agree with most of what's being said here, but I don't believe Johnny's intent was to use their tactics as an excuse for piracy. Ultimately its all personal opinion how are a person feels about it. Some use the DRM on Ubisoft products as an excuse to pirate their products, despite the fact they have made it much less worse than it was. If a person finds a practice wrong with the company and they feel they shouldn't give money to them, then they have every right not to. The difference here is that the Ubisoft DRM directly affects legitimate customers wheras this CD projekt business does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 It does affect legitimate non-consumers though (the ones who neither bought nor pirated the game). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excel_excel Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Well then that's bullshit!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 The reason I am surprised when people accuse me of just trying to justify not paying for a game is that, and I thought I had made this clear, I do not think piracy is inherently wrong and therefore do not really need any justifications to take part in it. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me. In fact, I expect it. I'm less fine with that in this thread, it does not seem we ever can have a calm discussion. It saddens me when instead of discussing the issue (and I think piracy is in dire need of discussion. Both sides of the debate need to make great effort in understanding the other side!) people just get angry and start barking at each other. That's largely why I stopped responding here. It's also why I attempt (but often fail) to not involve myself in the discussion here. I'm not saying he's not being honest about his actions (although that's totally not beneath him) Oh just stop it. I know you're pissed off at me, but that thread was trashcanned for a reason. If you want to discuss it, contact me on steam. Don't bring it up here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) It's funny you say how you stopped posting here to avoid drama since I explicitly remember you bumping this thread a few times in the past and telling me it was just to stir drama (Plus, nothing for me to get over, since you're the one who still loves the stealth down-repping ) Edited December 12, 2011 by Cyber Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 http://www.youhavedownloaded.com/ And you can search by IP. Which I may or may not have access to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excel_excel Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Hi. We have no records on you. phew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-games-of-2011-111230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Surprised Zelda's not on the Wii list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Only came out like 2 weeks before. I've a feeling their figures were done ahead of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgi Duke of Frisbee Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Portal 2 is one of the most pirated games? Gross. That game is too good to be pirated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 It's also one of the only ones that makes sense to pirate considering it actually has a good single player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchikoma Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I dl'ed Portal 2 because it was on Steam... but I wanted to play multiplayer and bought it. Then regretted it, not for anything in the game itself. Then dl'ed Skyrim, but I will buy it the day they sell it in standalone form, if that happens. They could charge $90 - if there's no DRM, the cash is theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 You should clarify that you mean "pirated" when you say "dl'ed." You download stuff from Steam, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 What do you have against Steam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchikoma Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) @Faiblesse - That is true, but I figured given the context, it would not be taken ambiguously since the counterpart is buying the game. It's shorthand. @Ethan: It's not a current grudge, but I remember when Steam came out, it basically locked me out of any Valve games because it would load, start downloading an update, fill up ALL of my RAM, then the fonts in all of my applications would default back to "system" before the whole PC would lock up. It could never update because it leaked memory like a sieve. Once they got it working, it became more like Windows Media Player going from version 6 (for those who don't remember, MP 6.4 looked like Media Player Classic) to 7 to 8, bloating up more and more to offer me more things I didn't want in the first place. I just wanted the games I bought, but to run the game I had to run the IM client, and the online store, and the updater, which would usually start downloading an update right when I'd decided to play a game, and offer no way to defer or cancel it while leaving the game playable - so I'd have to wait until it's finished downloading and patching to play the game I just double-clicked the icon of. Sometimes this meant sitting for a half hour playing a handheld while waiting for my already-installed game to launch, then closing it when it was ready because I was out of time. There was offline mode - but of course then you'd never get updates if you ran it all the time. Also, for a long time, switching to offline mode required signing in online first, then restarting offline, so if I had it on a laptop, I was simply locked out if I hadn't done the dance before leaving the house. These days there is at least a timeout to allow switching offline. The next problem is partly my fault, partly bad service - this is a very common issue, I've found by searching, and one that no one has ever had resolved. I made an account for Half-Life when CS 1.6 came out on Steam. I used this for a while, then stopped using it and uninstalled since it had no use for over a year. Eventually, the Orange Box came out and I bought it - but I didn't know which email address and password combination I'd originally used. Everything I tried failed, so it seemed that I'd lost my account. I wanted to play the game I had in my hand that day, so I made a new account for Orange Box and used that. Eventually I found the login info and got into my first account. I asked if I could merge the accounts since I could provide hard proof in every thinkable form that I owned both of them. No. Accounts and content on accounts can never be transferred. My content is split between two accounts until the end of time. A bunch of games on one, and a bunch on the other. Shitty, and enough of a hassle switching back and forth all the time that I generally abandoned them shortly after to play games I didn't need a babysitter for. So basically, there is a lot of bad blood in the past regarding it... I never asked for it, but never had a choice, and it has only made my experience as a customer worse. Regardless of what proportion of system resources it consumes, it does not need to consume ANY of them, as the games are fully capable of functioning without it. It is there simply to supervise me and make sure I'm not pirating their games. Lock up your goods, sure, but don't make me carry the lock around after I've bought them. This just makes every "feature" they add to it add insult to injury; I don't use them, so they're dead weight. Now, it's a matter of DRM. If you are unable to login to Steam for any reason, you lose EVERYTHING you have ever bought on the service forever, or until you manage to crack it. I don't like that from anyone, and in most other cases, I would not even give them my money under such a restrictive system. It's amazing what owning Counter-Strike and Portal could do to persuade me though. Not long ago, I received an email from Steam (they neither confirm nor deny this), linking only to official Steam servers, asking me to confirm a password reset request. I didn't make that request, so I ignored it - then they were hacked, so I figured I'd better go in and change my passwords. I also figured that since it'd been months since I even had Steam installed, I'd reinstall Portal 2 and try the new content they'd talked about. So I put in the backup disc, told it to install, and had to log in to authorize me to install from the disc... I entered my username (from the email) and the password... and it didn't work. So I asked for a password reset... and the message never came. My other account worked fine, but the one they asked me to reset didn't. So I opened a support ticket and asked for a reset. I spent over a week with the first rep, since they only replied once daily, if that. "Send me a photo of the ticket number written on your CD key." "Ok." "Tell me your name, account name, and home address and I'll reset the password." "Ok." "Did I say I'll reset it? I meant also send me the name and expiry date on your credit card and the last 4 digits." "OK..." "Something mismatched - I can't reset it for you." "What? That doesn't make sense - this is the only credit card I've ever had. Here is the previous expiry date and CVN number, though you shouldn't expect people to have that handy..." "Something mismatched. I can't help you." "Well then my account has been hijacked. Can't you roll back the info on it and see that it was mine?" "Nope. You're locked out unless you can give me the right info." "Look. Here is the message you guys sent me. It has the date and time of the reset request, and even the IP address of the guy who asked for it. It came from Steam. It links to Steam. It uses my real first and last names, which I really don't give out unless I have to. Is this reset request legit?" "Can't help you." "Wow. Everything I bought on that account just got jacked. I'm done with you guys." "Have a nice day." So I opened a new ticket a day later and got a different rep who pointed out... The account Valve asked me to reset wasn't either of the ones I owned - which he then showed me, instead of vaguely insisting something didn't add up and leaving me guessing. That raises a very interesting question though: I only believed that was my account because it was a Latin compound word that I made up expressly for the purpose of logging into online gaming services, never as a nickname, never published. It should only be known to a handful of MMORPG companies - and yet, I got an email from Valve asking me by my real name, at the address I'd first registered with Steam, to reset the account with this name. Assuming it was a phishing email, clicking the reset confirmation link would have, at best, finalized a password reset for this account and sent me a new password(?)(That is, it wasn't steampowered.com.omghax.cn or something) so... Where did it come from, and why? The answer from Valve was: We will look into this and take appropriate action. You will not be notified of the result. The lesson I took from that was a.) If something happens with Steam, I could easily be locked out of my games for at least a week while sorting it out. b.) Actually, like I'd talked about in theory before, but now proven: If something happens with Steam, I could be locked out of ALL my Steam games FOREVER. Someone could hijack my account and change my info, and it's possible (not addressed by Steam reps either way) that it would all be lost, me not knowing what it was changed to. Not only is it putting all of your eggs in one basket - it's handing the basket back to the guy who sold you the eggs and asking permission to borrow them. If he decides he doesn't like me some day... then all my eggs are gone. If he leaves town... all my eggs are gone. If I don't have the exact set of documents handy that he wants to see... all my eggs are gone, and so on. So I am so sick of Steam now, I am completely and thoroughly finished with them. Every time I give them money for something, I wind up kicking myself for it because it comes around to bite me in the end. Now, if the only way for me to get something is through Steam, I leave it or pirate it. For years, I've advocated donation forms on game developer websites because I do feel bad not paying for well made games, but sometimes DRM is just too cumbersome or evil to deal with. I'd love to give honest pay for honest work, but with barriers like these, it's not worth it. (edit: Item b does not mean I'm smiling while wearing shades, haha) Edited January 1, 2012 by fuchikoma 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 You can pause updates. Sounds like you've just been unlucky. You're one of the small number of people who runs into these issues vs the millions who Steam works great for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 @FDS: Doesn't mean it's not valid reasons to not like it. I use steam because it's worked great for me, and it continues to work great for me, and it has cheap games I can easily buy. If my experience with the program was like Fuchikoma's, I probably wouldn't use it. And yes, in that case, I would pirate any steamworks game. @Fuchikoma: I need to applaud you for this well-written response. It summarizes some of the most clear flaws Steam has, formulated better than any other similar commentary I've seen on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteer01 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) Since I finally have a gaming PC, and I actually bought a legit license for Windows 7 Pro and the dozen or so games I have, I thought I'd come in here and wag my finger at all you evil pirates. No, seriously though, everything on my gaming PC is legit, including the OS, which is...well, I don't know if I want to say anything more incriminating about my gaming in the three decades before this one. Anyway, I am impressed with Steam. I am sure some people have had problems with it, but I've had a great experience so far, and can see how it won't just get me to buy the games I want legitimately, it's probably going to help me buy a lot of games I didn't even know I really wanted. (Fuchikoma: I read your post and sincerely hope I never have any similar issues) My real thoughts on this topic are back a few dozen pages or so...so please don't get offended at this humorous post. Edited January 1, 2012 by peteer01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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