P4: Gritty Reboot Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Region locking + not releasing content in a certain region is one instance where I'm just flat out okay with piracy. If they want to make it that much of a pain in the ass for consumers to purchase their content I'm perfectly okay with the consumers just being like "okay, then I won't." But why is the response to pirate rather than to not play it at all? I'm usually on board with that type of argument, but in this case there is zero loss to the hard workers at the publisher, zero loss to the hardworking developers, zero loss to anyone associated with the production of the game--unless there's something I'm not seeing here. Edit for clarity: there isn't even potential loss as all piracy technically is. If every single person in Iran pirated Battlefield 3, EA generates the exact same revenue as if no one did, a statement one could not make if the game were legal there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I agree with you (P4) and Dean in that yes, pretty much the developers are leaving themselves an entire region whose only option is to not play the game, move country or pirate. I'm just pointing out that the solution from so many people is "If I can't get it through legitimate means, then I will get it through illegitimate means." rather than, "If I can't get it through legitimate means, then I will do without." My moral compass leads me to boycott products I can't purchase in a way I want to at a price I want to, rather than the quick fix of nicking it because I can, it's easy and it's free. It's what I did with Demon's Souls and eventually I got the EU release I deserve. (I know I could have legitimately imported it, but I didn't want to). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I bet you people are the types that stay stone cold sober at an open bar. Yep. Teetotaler here. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 My moral compass leads me to boycott products I can't purchase in a way I want to at a price I want to, rather than the quick fix of nicking it because I can, it's easy and it's free. How'd you go about boycotting a product that isn't sold though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 See region-locking and piracy are tough calls really. Lets see now if you pirated a game that sold well in its territory then P4 is absolutely right there is no loss of revenue, in fact the popularity of said pirated game encourages other publishers to think about publishing further titles in that series in that territory. If we look at the history of region-locked systems and games unavailable in a region we'll see that to be the case (It's why part 2 of a game ends up being available when part 1 never was - PAL has plenty of examples of that). Now if a region-locked game sold terribly in a region and it was pirated in another region the developer/publisher will feel annoyed but at the same time it's free market study. Tracking regions and ips where a game is downloaded gives an indication to what the reception would be like in that territory for that title. The issue is that usually when the game is released since the title was pirated at first and the cost of entry was zero if it's expensive then you'll find the audience to be tiny as opposed to if the audience being moderately sized if the game is price appropriately. I think in Europe Tecmo-Koei gets it right, they know their games won't sell for the highest price which is why you can get their titles on release for sub30 and it drops to sub20 fast. They also do publish limited quantities which means they've got their backs and profitability covered. Region-locking doesn't make a lot of sense for big publishers because they're out to control revenue from select markets. It's an open market in games and whether they want to or not the game is going to sell at a price the consumer feels worth it (This last point is entirely because the market is now oversaturated with games, face it, it's true). Unless the industry does a rethink we'll face something similar to the crash of 83. There's a number of things competing with a person's time. It is perhaps thus better if games follow structured pricing models. I'm glad to see it in some form on the Vita (not the ideal one of course but they are following a structured pricing model which in the end helps the industry - whether it helps consumers outside of giving them decent games is up for debate). When a game isn't published in a region, there is no localisation costs and if the company had no intention to bring it and if it's also impossible to play because the system is region-locked what happens is entirely upto the consumer. We usually end up with the old school niche gamer who imports consoles and games from every region supporting their developer, the modern niche gamer who imports the games that aren't released in their territory when the console is region-free or who imports it to play it via jailbroken or homebrewed machines thus still supporting the developer or the one who just pirates it because the cost of import is too high. People are not going to not play a game if they have an interest in it, it's a human instinct to want to experience things. It happens with film more often than with games.However boycotting a game from a territory because they can't bring it over doesn't affect the developer. They never factored in that market, they only factored the local market. Anything that happens outside of that is just helping them market themselves and helps them prepare for a different future. Let me put it this way, if people did not get to play the chinese fake carts of superfamicom games jrpgs would not have gained much of a following in western territories that by the late SNES generation we had a fair few of them and in the PSX, N64 generation we had a lot more and now we have fairly a huge chunk of them available. If these games were not available to the west we wouldn't have the burst of importance of levelling up and skilltrees. Sure there's a few games but honestly black isle games were niche and the early blizzard games weren't hugely popular. These games did create a market. Experiencing games, films and media from an external culture is not a bad thing as it broadens our horizon and so this isn't something where we have a binary answer and extends far from piracy in the impact it has on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I just don't think people have an obligation to do without if they cannot obtain the product through legitimate means. It is important to this viewpoint though that the goods in question are digital, as I would not apply the same reasoning to something that required actually depriving another person of produced goods. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 http://torrentfreak.com/file-sharing-recognized-as-official-religion-in-sweden-120104/ So... Yeah. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 lmfao! I call BS on the idea that anyone actually believes copying data to be a sacred act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I disagree. I think the spread of information is beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 While I... actually would quite agree with the spread of information being beautiful, I could not hold copying as sacred. For anyone interested, here's the English version of their website: http://kopimistsamfundet.se/english/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yeah, there's a difference between it being a great and wonderful thing and it being sacred in a religious sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Well, I think you're taking it a bit too literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 They made it an official religion. I don't think I'm taking it too literally, I think THEY are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 You're clueless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Then enlighten me, rather then acting like a superior asshole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovach_ Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 It's just as silly as any other religion, really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I won't pretend to fully understand them or agree, but I feel their right to believe in this is as strong as anyone's right to believe in anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Well sure, I'm just skeptical as to the scencerity of their belief. They may well feel very strongly about data sharing, but I find it hard to believe their feelings are religious in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteer01 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 How'd you go about boycotting a product that isn't sold though? By not buying it. Duh. I agree with you (P4) and Dean in that yes, pretty much the developers are leaving themselves an entire region whose only option is to not play the game, move country or pirate.Or, as Japan seems fond of doing, making it so that they intentionally restrict themselves to a single region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Well sure, I'm just skeptical as to the scencerity of their belief. Is this one for English vs. English or English vs. Ethan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 It's just as silly as any other religion, really. Exactly. It's pretty obvious that these guys aren't going to church every Sunday and parying to a HDD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 My moral compass leads me to boycott products I can't purchase in a way I want to at a price I want to, rather than the quick fix of nicking it because I can, it's easy and it's free. How'd you go about boycotting a product that isn't sold though? I mean boycott in the sense that you abstain from using. Rather than abstain from buying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Well sure, I'm just skeptical as to the scencerity of their belief. Is this one for English vs. English or English vs. Ethan? This is one for English vs. my phone's auto-making-words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 You kids and your posting from phones. Call me when your Crackberry or iTampon has an IBM Model M keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 You kids and your posting from phones. Call me when your Crackberry or iTampon has an IBM Model M keyboard. *Ring Ring. Ring Ring* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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