Johnny Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Piracy of a product that is otherwise officially & legally available to you is wrong. Piracy of a product that is legally available but you would not buy anyway is wrong, but it's wrong like lying to your boss about being sick so you can go to a football game is wrong (i.e. only in an academic, doesn't-really-matter kind of way). In seriousness, I would label both piracy and your lying to the boss example as morally grey. They aren't exactly right, but I can't really judge anyone for it either. Unless, of course, you're pirating just to be a dick. Then you're just being a dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 They aren't exactly right, but I can't really judge anyone for it either. That's kind of what I was trying to get at: yeah, it's "wrong", but I don't really care if people do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 I care. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 @elev3n: that's like saying that buying a GPS is cheating other consumers because I could use it to cheat in a wilderness navigation competition. If it's allowed to buy a GPS, then yes. You stole the GPS (I think you would agree that I used the correct word here!), and bought better wilderness stuff with your money, while I bought better wilderness stuff with my money, but no GPS since I can't afford it after all those expensive gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Sorry, assume GPS's are against the rules in this competition. Just because you could use something to cheat at something doesn't mean that getting it is cheating by itself was my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Then you can't even use the GPS in the first place. In my example, software use is allowed, i thought that was implied. Why would you get it then? Just because? Yeah well downloading that software illegally is not cheating by itself. However, it was used. Why would you pirate if you don't intend to use it? If you got the GPS but didn't use it, then it's no big deal to me. You just made yourself $150 poorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Piracy of a product that is otherwise officially & legally available to you is wrong. Good thing piracy has cases where this is not true. Plus, you're making it black and white. What about CD keys you've used 3 times on your own systems that you can't use anymore? I can't believe you're trying to make such a basic argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) @elev3n: lol, this is why metaphors are bad, they just end up confusing everything. What I meant is that not every use of pirated software constitutes cheating other users. If I pirate Photoshop and use it to make silly pictures to post on this forum the only person I've cheated is Adobe (putting aside that they seem to encourage Photoshop piracy...) *Edit* - @FDS: Well, I would make a distinction between pirating a product and just cracking one you bought, but fine, throw an "in general" on the front of that, and know that I acknowledge there are exceptions but that it's impractical to list every exception. Edited March 16, 2012 by TheMightyEthan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Well, don't post that picture on reddit! Your fancier image with your fancy pirated Photoshop will net you more karma than my MS Painted one. So unfair. I concede. In any event, the original point was semantics. They are all, for the purpose of this discussion, the same to me. Also, from now on, there will be no such things as stolen recipes and stolen ideas. I didn't steal your ideas, I copied it. It's morally grey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 As far as cheating "the competition" we were actively encouraged to pirate adobe n autodesk software in college. So everyone was pretty much on a level playing field in that. (As Ethan said they sort of encourage that too. Unless you're a business then they'll come down hard, but student use is awesome for them cos they know when you're in a position to be buying software, well if Photoshop is king of the torrents then you'll be buying that instead of Paintshop Pro.) As far as games go, about the only competition between two gamers would be their skill at MP and achievements. Most pirated games you can't really do the MP, at least against paying customers, and don't get achievements. Copying recipes would be patent infringement. I think this is where a lot of the issues arrive in discussion is that for most folks patents,copyrights n trademarks are the same thing. The disc the game goes on and the engine that runs it - patented The name on the box - trademarked The characters and locations within the game - copyright. And the rules weren't really meant to get at "the little people" but the big people. i.e to stop...Square from making a game set in Hyrule. Or Atlus making a "Legend of Zelda" game. Or Nintendo making a controller with a glowing orb on the end. It's why Disney tends to be at the forefront of copyright laws, they don't do it to stop joe bloggs from torrenting Beauty and the Beast, they do it to stop Dreamworks from making a Mickey Mouse movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 I don't really pirate much. If I do it's usually music I can't buy on itunes or really old games that you can't find anywhere else, and even then it's a pretty rare occasion. That being said, I do NOT like the idea of my ISP sniffing through my data. I'm a private person and it just gives me the heebie jeebies. Even if you don't have anything to hide, nobody likes going through customs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Ugh, like buying it on iTunes makes it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDex Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 I don't use Itunes myself but I don't see any reason doing so would be wrong? I mean it is a legal avenue for downloading music. What alternatives would you suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 I am not read up on iTunes recently, but I think the common complaint is that next to no money from that goes to the musicians themselves in most cases. Some people would argue that it's effectively just as bad as pirating it. What I tend to do is, I primarily prefer to go to concerts as my way of supporting artists, secondarily buy albums from them. (I'd rather buy the physical disc so I don't have to worry about DRM and other such utter nonsense, and can rip it to any format I want) I wish more artists would tour up here. Only group I liked in recent memory up here was Machinae Supremacy, and they only tour here because this is where they live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDex Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 I'm with you Johnny. I go to gigs to show my support for a band and buy their CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 For most artists they get next to no money from you buying the CD either, unless you buy it directly from them (like at a concert). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 Ethan: This is true, and I do try to inform myself of what benefits a particular band before I spend my highly limited cash on them. It's a shame, and a failing of the music industry, that things are that complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 This is why I'm glad the industry is dying. Music has shown far more than any other industry that they don't need the big companies that run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Ubisoft, being reasonable? Am I hallucinating? http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/25/ubisoft-hopes-to-negate-the-need-for-drm-with-support-and-conten/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchikoma Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Ubisoft, being reasonable? Am I hallucinating? http://www.joystiq.c...ort-and-conten/ Yes. To me that says they will relax, not end their DRM practices, once no one pirates their games. So if someone pirates them, they'll still be jerks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I don't think paid DLC does much to help piracy at all. I could be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Ubisoft, being reasonable? Am I hallucinating? http://www.joystiq.c...ort-and-conten/ Yes. To me that says they will relax, not end their DRM practices, once no one pirates their games. So if someone pirates them, they'll still be jerks. Yeah, that's how I read it too, but in my book any wavering from their draconian drm practices is a sign of reasonableness. It shows that they're not going to just blindly stick to their "piracy is bad, we must try to prevent it" outlook forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I don't think paid DLC does much to help piracy at all. I could be wrong though. DLC actively makes me avoid paying full price for a game. Unless it's free DLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 That's like refusing to pay full price for a steak dinner if you're asked if you'd like to add mac & cheese as a side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 That's like refusing to pay full price for a steak dinner if you're asked if you'd like to add mac & cheese as a side. Exactly. Yes, the mac & cheese is already available. It makes no sense to not offer it with the steak. I'm not going to buy an incomplete steak unless you add the mac & cheese for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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