fuchikoma Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Just because piracy would give someone the freedom to play a game early - which would be an incentive to pirate it - that does not mean that as a potential pirate, there is an obligation to do so. And yeah... lots of people DO grab movies and albums before they're legally available when someone leaks them, so I don't see the point you're making about how that is any diffrent from grabbing a game that's released in one zone and not another. I suppose in the former case you could morally justify it to yourself a bit better, but choosing to pirate something is more of a practical choice than a moral one, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I've been thinking about it (because of the Halo 4 leak) and I don't think I have a problem with pirating something when it leaks before launch PROVIDED you buy it at launch. I don't have a modded 360 or a dual-layer DVD burner so I couldn't play Halo 4 now even if I downloaded it, but assuming I could I don't think it would be morally problematic for me to download it now as long as I don't cancel my preorder for it. I've already ordered it, Microsoft is getting their money at the same time either way, so they wouldn't be hurt by me pirating the leaked version. Now, I realize that assuming people won't cancel their preorders is assuming an ideal world, and that in practice a large percentage of people who pirate the leaked version would not still buy the game at launch, I'm just thinking about the morality of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Doesn't that assumption put yourself in an automatic high n mighty morality? One would assume that a decent chunk of folks that are so excited for the game are huge fans who have likely had it pre-ordered from the moment Cortana first shouts "John Wake up" in that teaser trailer are the types who might jump on the chance to grab it ASAP as well (like yourself). Of course on a technical level it's worth pointing out that last I checked the way Xbox 360 piracy works is your console pretty much becomes a piracy or nothing machine as you can't go on Live anymore, kinda negating buying a huge multiplayer game like Halo 4. (That's why I tend to point out console piracy as being a tad more serious than PC piracy is because you can do it casually on PC but on console it's a dedicated effort to pirate games media) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Actually the fact that it can't be done casually is a big part of why I don't think many people would pirate it and still buy it at launch. If it were on a PC game, sure, but on 360 getting it to a state where you can play pirated games is already a fairly big commitment to piracy, so I'm betting most of those people just pirate all the games they get. If 360 piracy were as easy as PC piracy I'd agree with you, because then there'd be a whole bunch of people like me who ordinarily buy all their games but would pirate this just so they could have it NOW. Also, from what I've read the risk of getting banned from XBL for pirating games is actually really low as long as you keep your flashed firmware up to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchikoma Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 With the special pirate versions of some PC games that have come out, I think it would be really funny if with Halo 4, they deliberately leaked it, but with different voice acting and cutscenes in places, enough to really mess with the heads of people who downloaded the leaked version. I don't know enough about the plot, but I'm thinking of stuff like killing off main characters and changing the context of the battles, etc. Of course this would all take extra money, but I'm basically thinking a bit of script writing and voice acting, and maybe a little bit of realtime animation work... then when they send it to production, switch it back to the real version, so until then, the pirates would be bothered by what had happened to the series, and when it launched, they'd have to buy the legit copy to see what really took place (then play through the same missions over again...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) They don't have to QA all that fake stuff i think. It's not even supposed to make sense at all. Just add some voice acting from the staff and then as you said make some cutscene using the game engine where people die, and the game gets unplayable or you're not able to finish or get stuck somewhere. then they'd look it up or post on forums how the game sucks. I doubt that would take any amount money, just probably a day or two since all assets are in the game anyway. Someone else did this. It was a Batman game i think. Something about your cape not gliding properly or something.... He posted on a forum and they basically told him well you got a pirated copy. Oops just realized you were actually talking about those. But yeah it shouldn't cost a lot to do probably. Then of course real pirates know to look for Reloaded or Skidrow! Edited October 15, 2012 by eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Yeah, in Arkham Asylum if you pirated it then your cape wouldn't work when you tried to glide, which made a certain mission impossible. I think it was fairly early in the game too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I think it would be quite cool to mess with an earlier version of the game, perhaps deliberately leaking it, in a way that has an impact on its presentation/perception somehow. Off the top of my head, having only an altered, brief ending available, or some surprise or pattern of clues is revealed, so that there is value in replaying the story. Kind of like how a company like Valve is savvy enough to know that PC gamers go data-mining, so they create little clues or ARGs, a company could get creative with all the meta aspects of their game. Obviously, this would be sort of like encouraging piracy, but if you can't beat 'em... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 What an original concept. Some kind of pre-release, "demonstration" version of the game to get people more interested in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Not what I meant at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgi Duke of Frisbee Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Instead of something silly like a cape glitch, they should just make the pirated copy wipe your hard drive partition 10 minutes in. "SURPRISE!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Not what I meant at all. I know, but it sounded similar and I wanted to make fun of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Why I oughta... Really, though, I was building on what fuchikoma was saying but rather than fucking with people for the sake of it, you try and make something meaningful out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchikoma Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Though for things like that that interfere with the ability to properly play the retail version of the game, they have to make sure it works 100%. I have a friend who has been adversely affected by FADE ("Real games don't fade!" ...except when they do) so now he's switched to pirating stuff from Codemasters and Bohemia so his games WON'T subtly decay while he plays them. Of course you can see why this kind of thing would cause problems if it deleted files or wiped partitions too... But I was thinking something like the special pirate version of some games (or just this one?) A version that's deliberately leaked, but instead of having a novelty tweak, it'd look legit and the plot would just be wrong in ways that would get under the skin of serious fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Can't really do stuff like the cape glide stuff in a console game as there's no exe to check isn't tweaked and you can't do anything that requires patching either. Regular DRM stuff is the main line of defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 You don't need to patch the "bug" in, you leak a bugged disc image for the console. The final game won't have that. It's a different game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm not saying to patch the bug in, I'm saying about patching the bug out once the game is in legal payers hands. It requires everyone to have net access or many people will be left with the sabotaged game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Actually I wanted to say patch the bug "out". I don't know why I said "in". Oh I see. But I wasn't even considering patching the bugged game. I was under the impression that you actually need to buy the real disc anyway, as most console games are still on disk. Or download the Digital download, again. Getting the pirated one so that you have it "preloaded" can be solved by allowing us to preload on our consoles. I also don't find anything wrong with having been left a sabotaged game. It's not like you got that through the "right" channels (for lack of a better word). Someday torrents will be one of those right channels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah, in Arkham Asylum if you pirated it then your cape wouldn't work when you tried to glide, which made a certain mission impossible. I think it was fairly early in the game too. And as I recall, finding a crack that fixed the anti-piracy "bugs" was a task accomplished in a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah, but it took a little while for those patches to get released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Actually I wanted to say patch the bug "out". I don't know why I said "in". Oh I see. But I wasn't even considering patching the bugged game. I was under the impression that you actually need to buy the real disc anyway, as most console games are still on disk. Or download the Digital download, again. Getting the pirated one so that you have it "preloaded" can be solved by allowing us to preload on our consoles. I also don't find anything wrong with having been left a sabotaged game. It's not like you got that through the "right" channels (for lack of a better word). Someday torrents will be one of those right channels... Okay something has clearly been lost in translation here. You can't leave buyers with a sabotaged game as that would run foul of consumer protection laws, your studio would be sued off the face of the earth. Which is why you can't do it in the forst place as not all folks have net connection tobe able patch their game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 eleven is saying that the version of the game that you actually send to the manufacturer to be printed onto discs and downloaded from whatever online store would be fine as is, but up until then you would keep it intentionally bugged out so that any leaks would be leaking a fucked up version. Therefore no problem with consumer protection laws because the sold versions wouldn't be fucked up to begin with, only the pre-release pirated versions. That wouldn't address the Halo 4 situation though, because my understanding was that they believe it was review copies that got out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Buyers??? It's a pirated copy leaked early. There are no buyers. Why would you want to bug a buyer? EDIT: ethan already clarified it. Though i didn't really think about accidental leaks. More of intentional leaks that the devs themselves leak. I guess what ethan said works too and saving you from accidental leaks but also you better be sure to release the correct version later. Edited October 16, 2012 by eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Ohhhh. Yeah that's not what the "leaked" games are that end up on pirate sites. There isn't a separate pirate copy and a proper copy sold in shops, the pirate copies are the versions shops get. Before launch the discs are spirited away, there's many stages for that to happen, and ripped n uploaded. If they were two distinct versions of the game then sabotage of the pirate version would be common practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchikoma Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 We're talking about deliberately releasing a leaked version, or keeping the development version one-off from the production version and swapping in the real assets before the discs get minted. It might increase piracy of the game somewhat, but the only ones who can use the leaked version would have modded consoles already, and when the real version goes to stores, they'd see that what they played wasn't it. (Sure, someone could rip the final version then and let people pirate it too... but it would be a funny way to mess with pirates and distract them from looking for a real leaked copy.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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