Showmeyomoves! Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 So, thanks to Tali, I found this interesting article about the dangers of traveling to - and living on - Mars: Mars Is Hard I recommend reading it, but even if you don't, I'd like to hear your opinions on wether or not we should be spending time and resources on Mars. Do you think exploring Mars is useful? Should we colonize it if we can? How do you feel about terraforming a planet that isn't our own? Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akuam4n Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 I seriously think space exploration is the biggest waste of money known to man... right now. I'm sctrictly just speaking for the Us when I say this too. With the economy going to shit, they should be pulling all those funds, and putting the money towards something else useful; that would actually help people right now. Give the workers a pension or something until they reinstate the science, they would still save money. Now, if that weren't the case, I'd be sort of for it. I was excited when they found the new, what was it, bacteria in the arsenic lake in (I think) Cali. I just really think living on Mars, or anywhere else in space right now if a dream. Too expensive, too far away, too many risks. We really need to work with what we have, which as of now is just Earth. Also, tl;dr. I might read it later, and post some more thoughts. I skimmed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I think we should make Obama the president of Mars and find a way to get him there ASAP! Spare no expense. ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouchart Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Conquer the moon first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Haven't read that article yet but... there will always be problems here on Earth. Also I am with Bouchart, Luna first. Then we could even start using the far side as a target pad for asteroids to mine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staySICK Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I really wish we would put more effort and emphasis on space exploration again. When space exploration was popular, America had very high science scores, along with a higher quality of education for the American people. Granted there are many factors behind the sharp decline, I can't help but feel that its one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMagicPony Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showmeyomoves! Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Haven't read that article yet but... there will always be problems here on Earth. Also I am with Bouchart, Luna first. Then we could even start using the far side as a target pad for asteroids to mine... But the moon is just a rock. Not much to be found there. Or are you talking about making the moon a pitstop on the way to Mars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-K Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Considering the size the mars-express would have to be, it would have to be built in space. The moon would probably serve as the ... overstapstation. Oh trouwens, ik stuur je ff een mailtje. Ben je email adres kwijt, stuur mij ff een mailthe (via profile) en dan reply ik weer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Haven't read that article yet but... there will always be problems here on Earth. Also I am with Bouchart, Luna first. Then we could even start using the far side as a target pad for asteroids to mine... But the moon is just a rock. Not much to be found there. Or are you talking about making the moon a pitstop on the way to Mars? A rock with useful resources. For example, the water on the moon could be a possible source for water to fill up on before heading to Mars. Less weight to shoot out into space from earth, the better. So yeah, a pitstop of sorts. It would also be a good location for a meetup to put everything together because, as far as I remember, you just can't go to Mars anytime you want. Well, you could but it would take longer. So I think it would be a better idea to gather around the moon first than be at the mercy of the weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I think we should figure out the problems down here first before we even bother with another planet that isn't even habitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 But learning to make the uninhabitable habitable should help us massively down here. I agree that the moon should be a good idea for mining. But we can do that automatically. Robots n such, not worth colonizing. Mars in a long term thing should be a good idea. Even if just for population control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Except that the resources required would all have to come from Earth in the first place not to mention all of the time and minds it would take away from handling problems down here. I have no problem with terraforming mars and things like that but it's not going to happen for hundreds of years and that's assuming we're even around for that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 The resources to make spaceships that we're already making would have to come form earth sure. But we don't make spaceships from moon rock. Moons pretty mineable. It's just the logistics of mining it and sending that material back to earth. And it's not like the minds working on the solutions of terra-forming other planets can't have their work used on Earth after. It's not like scientists and their research are single use. Pull em out a vacuum sealed bag, good for one use. And Mars has a carbon dioxide rich atmosphere. Which is something that's starting to become a problem for us. If we can figure out a large scale solution that'll turn a 95% CO2 atmosphere into breathable oxygen, then that'd work wonders for turning our >1% CO2 atmosphere into a cleaner one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 What does the Moon have to mine? Be very specific here. Is it something that we can't mine here? Something that's only in abundance on the moon? And most importantly, something we can actually use? Anyways, with the "usage of minds" comment, I'm saying that we should develop things here first and use them here rather than developing them for Mars first. Implementing them on Mars would be a whole another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Helium-3 if I recall correctly. It is what would be needed for a fusion reaction. It is possible to get it here on Earth but it is nowhere as common. As for other resources, not sure but I bet there will be metals and other stuff to be found there. No one really have explored the moon in detail by digging here and there so who knows what surprises it has in store. As Dean said, robots could do the job. Makes the most sense. And of course it will take Earth's resources to get it started but if we can manage to start getting at the mineral resources out there, the payback will be quite handsome. Some of the metallic asteroids have enough metal like iron to rebuild all of our cities and settlements a few time over. I said earlier that the moon far side could be a place to crash some of those asteroids into... not particularly safe but if pulled off, the stuff is pretty much in our backyard. As for tech developed for space related things... those stuff for sure will find a use here on Earth. A ton of stuff you have in your own home has roots from space tech developed years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Can Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Helium-3 is a big reason for mining on the moon, and that's likely in 50 years as we look for alternative energy sources. The whole argument of how we should take care of problems here first is moot, because if we did, humanity won't be goin' anywhere near Mars for the next few centuries. Mars is a far stretch in the next few years, but manned missions to the moon should definitely be invested in. Exploring the stars is what once drove humankind. For now, all the funds NASA has is actually a reduced amount since the end of 2008, and the Great Recession won't last more than another 5 years. Heck, if somebody doesn't get a human to land on Mars before 2050, I'll be sorely disappointed, because that would mean that humanity is still bitchin' around here. Space exploration does not take a massive amount of funding, and it's not that big on a national deficit at all. Wars on Earth with continue, poverty in third world countries will continue, and it's not like space exploration will obstruct progress in those fields. Heck, it can even benefit them. So I say, fuckin' go for Mars. Once the world economy is on a stable boom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showmeyomoves! Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Manned mission would be awesome, but what about full-on colonization? I don't think living there would be as awesome as the idea of living there. That shit will get depressing fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Can Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 8G will have been invented by then. A fast internet connection can do wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Well Russia have been doing tons of test on isolation n stuff.. Being cooped up for many many months all alone. Of course Mars colonisation would be many decades. But best to start small. (acorns oaks n all that) Actually talking of Russia, you know theres a large chance that it won't be NASA who do this whole thing right? Bear in mind the latest bits of news on NASA have been funding cuts, them finding bacteria in California, them naming n shaming 2012 as worse science in a film, and the shuttles stopping and having to piggy back on Russia Soyuz rockets to get to ISS. Russia have the studies on colonisation Mars trips, they have the working space program, they're kinda short on cash but I'm sure if they ask China might not be too unwilling to pony up, and there's shit loads of commercial potential for private investment. The patents alone would be worth potentially tens of billions. If not trillions. The propulsion technology required to get stuff shipped off fast enough to make it worthwhile would no doubt filter down to the military. The tech to build enclosed self sustained enclosure would/could allow stronger structures on earth, the ability to grow a wide variety of food on any environment on earth. Long term we'd no doubt look in to terra-forming technology which would and could allow us to do wonders for 3rd world countries and the amazon rainforest. You'd be required to make a self-sustained 'town', that would run on nothing but the materials we have on earth. If we can do that on Mars, we can do it pretty much anywhere. Once things are more settled in the uber-rich will be able to use the now much cheaper space flights to go on exotic holidays to Mars. Thats got to be worth a bob or two. "Climb the Olympus Mons; Stand atop the highest peak in the solar system", "Romantic breaks away; No children for miles around". Mars, in case the red hue never gave things away, is pretty Iron rich. Iron is worth quite a bit (and should they set up smelting facilities would allow to actually create more structures on the surface) So that's a bonus. Other mineable materials include Mar's 1.6% Argon content in the air. (ours is .9%) People may say that going to MArs will cost alot. No shit. But you've got to spend money to make money. Come on US is spending shit loads on a war in the middle east for what? A few decades of oil? How very short term. Think big. Think grand. The stars the limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Manned mission would be awesome, but what about full-on colonization? I don't think living there would be as awesome as the idea of living there. That shit will get depressing fast. IOW, it's a nice place to visit but you couldn't make me live there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slatz_grobnik Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Haven't read that article yet but... there will always be problems here on Earth. Also I am with Bouchart, Luna first. Then we could even start using the far side as a target pad for asteroids to mine... But the moon is just a rock. Not much to be found there. Or are you talking about making the moon a pitstop on the way to Mars? The sort of argument I tend to see for colonizing - or setting up permanent facilities - on the Moon, is that we could do it tomorrow. If 24 hours from now the industrialized world was gripped in a general "hey, let's do something!", we could see it done in far less than a lifetime. Furthermore, we really haven't gotten the kinks out of this whole process of moving stuff to space. It might not really be possible. As the article gets at, it's not unreasonable to think that yes, maybe we're more or less stuck on the Pale Blue because the problems are to great for too few rewards. If we're serious about doing it, we need to experiment more. Mars isn't terribly suited for that. If, $deity forbid, something goes wrong with a jaunt to Mars, that's it. Not that the Moon's a cakewalk, but your window of failure is a lot bigger...probably more catastrophic for political will to do so as well. And, callously, with a faster turnaround to rectify failures, we can learn What Not To Do in order to survive out there a lot faster. As such, the point isn't the resources to be gained (though, as often with space exploration and science in general, it's pretty hard to predict those sorts of gains), but that the Moon is the celestial kiddie pool. Sure, it's not really swimming, but it's probably worth splashing around a bit just to find out if the water's going to come up and kill us dead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/nasa-wants-spacecraft-designed-mars-return-tr NASA just threw some work in the direction of 3 big boys to design a return vessel to take off from Mars. I guess they're not yet working on the idea of keeping folks there long term. Though it seems it's for minerals, which I guess they'd want that brought back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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