deanb Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 No, that is the point Ryan, they want to do as much to hurt the used market as possible. If they stop people from buying the game used then they've succeeded, even if it means those people never buy the game at all. Disagree. Like with piracy, this "problem" is best combated not by deliberately hurting those who "hurt" your business, but rather turn them into actual paying customers. They ought to think of a real system in place to get people to buy new games rather than piss all over the people who buy used ones. Ethan is probably of similar mind, he's just explaining how the publishers see Last Pass. If they stop people buying used, they bleed folks like Gamestop dry. If someone picks the game used then buys the online pass, it's a nice side-effect for them. You're well aware that publishers tend to suck at coming up with solutions for people to actually buy the game new, they'd rather just come up with plans to shit on everyone else (or aim to shit on everyone else n fuck over legit customers in the process) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Yeah, what dean said. I just meant that if they stop people from buying used they've succeeded in their goal, which is stopping people from buying used. I think though they should instead spend their resources on trying to figure out how to get people to buy new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 No, that is the point Ryan, they want to do as much to hurt the used market as possible. If they stop people from buying the game used then they've succeeded, even if it means those people never buy the game at all. Disagree. Like with piracy, this "problem" is best combated not by deliberately hurting those who "hurt" your business, but rather turn them into actual paying customers. They ought to think of a real system in place to get people to buy new games rather than piss all over the people who buy used ones. Ethan is probably of similar mind, he's just explaining how the publishers see Last Pass. If they stop people buying used, they bleed folks like Gamestop dry. If someone picks the game used then buys the online pass, it's a nice side-effect for them. You're well aware that publishers tend to suck at coming up with solutions for people to actually buy the game new, they'd rather just come up with plans to shit on everyone else (or aim to shit on everyone else n fuck over legit customers in the process) Yes, of course. I'm just saying what they should be doing, even though I'm all too aware of what they will be doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I could still see people buying used and passing on an Online Pass. I mean, it kinda depends on the game, or at least what the game offers if you have a Pass. Take Dead Space 2 for example. I believe all an Online Pass granted was access to multiplayer and probably a few extras. I've never touched multiplayer for the game and I imagine I'm not alone in that regard. I guess if you want everything, you're not the type of person who does normally buy used because used copies do tend to miss out on anything exclusive to brand new. Then again, like I said in the Piracy thread, if you're buying a recently released used copy, how much are you saving? At GameStop, it's usually $5. So, get a used copy and spend an extra $10 for everything, or buy a brand new copy (thereby helping those behind the game) for an extra $5. It's not like one's wallet will being bleeding, but I could see the frustration if you had a used copy for something like $25, but ended up with $35 in total. Still might beat the brand new copy if it were $40 on shelves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 BTW back to Dirt 3 Online Pass. PC version requires it too. PC version doesn't come with a code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 PC version doesn't come with a code. I can't hear you over the sound of any chance of me buying Dirt 3 evaporating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 If people stop buying used games because they don't want to have to buy the Online Pass then the onus will be on the retailers to drop the price of used games further. Currently the mark-up on used games is obscene, we all know how little we get on the trade in compared to how much GAME and the like charge for pre-owned, often the retailer is making a huge profit on a game they have already sold for a profit at least once before. Online Pass gives consumers a choice, they can get a game second hand, for cheap, they can then pay the $10 if or when they want to, to access the full content, or they can buy a new copy and enjoy the full experience out of the box. With the likes of Tesco and Asda going to the mattresses over games such as FIFA and CoD, the brand new version of the game is often lower than the pre-owned price in specialist retailers anyway. The publishers really aren't looking to hurt to consumers, the only people that should be punished by Online Pass is the reseller, but, until consumers wake up and force GAME to drop their pre-owned prices by $10 (by not buying at the usual, extortionate) pre-owned price, the consumer will continue to bear the brunt. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I fail to see how the mark up on used games is related to online pass artifically devaluing used games. Also, from what I can tell there is no retail release of DiRT 3 on the PC. The only places I can find it for sale is on Steam and other digital sites. Is this going to be a new trend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeeferton Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) We have a thread about whether or not you pirate games but what about games with heavy DRM, online passes or other kinds of purchase restrictions. Does it affect whether or not you purchase a certain game? Hell no. If anything, it discourages me. Particularly with heavy DRM, but Project 10 Dollar can go to hell, for all I care. Not fun buying a game new, getting jipped out of your free content, and then having everyone else rub your face in the extra content. But maybe I'm just bitter. The thing that annoys me the most is that DRM shit, because it's just a futile effort on their part and they're restricting our rights as a consumer. As for that online pass thing, I don't use multiplayer hardly ever so it's not like it bothers me directly, but I still think it's bullshit. If you're going to do that, sell the multiplayer on a separate disc. Stop trying to lock me out of content on a disc that I purchased, goddammit. That's annoying. If you don't want us to access it, keep it off the disc. I should own the contents of the disc that I purchase. But that's my opinion, I guess. Bleh. Edited May 24, 2011 by McBeeferton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I fail to see how the mark up on used games is related to online pass artifically devaluing used games. Also, from what I can tell there is no retail release of DiRT 3 on the PC. The only places I can find it for sale is on Steam and other digital sites. Is this going to be a new trend? Online Pass doesn't artificially devalue used games. It actually devalues them. That the retailer does not recognise this is not the fault of the publisher, it's the fault of the retailer. If you try to trade in a game without a manual retailers (used to) give you less money for it and, in turn, charge the consumer less, you made the choice to buy a game without a manual knowing that you are getting less than someone who buys the game with the manual. If you then go and buy a manual separately, that's your choice. Online Pass is no different, except for the fact that retailers are slow to accept that the product has a lower value and to pass that down the chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgi Duke of Frisbee Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Alice: Madness Returns is doing it right. Their online pass will activate a copy of the original game! That practically guarantees I'll be buying it new. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 BTW back to Dirt 3 Online Pass.PC version requires it too. PC version doesn't come with a code. What's your source on that? I'm skeptical. Alice: Madness Returns is doing it right. Their online pass will activate a copy of the original game! That practically guarantees I'll be buying it new. I agree, this is definitely the way to do project-10-dollar stuff. Rather than taking content away from used purchasers, give additional content to new purchasers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Ok, so the principal is sound, it just needs to be the right content? Would you feel ok about extra levels/quests in SP campaigns, like Bioware tend to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangelove Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 In the long term, Im kind of digging the online pass. If the online pass becomes common place, common to the point where the average gamer knows what it is and what it does, I think Gamestop and the like will have to drop the price of their used games. People wont pay 55 dollars for a used copy of Modern Warfare 7 if you have to pay 10 extra dollars to play online. But if you drop it to 45 dollars, then it would make sense and people would still buy it used. I have nothing but to benefit from it. I dont game online, so the proposition of taking off 10 or so bucks from a used game sounds awesome. Shit, i wish publishers gave me the option of omitting online from the new games i buy if I got a discount. I didnt need Dead Space 2's multiplayer. If i could have bought it for 50 bucks new without the online I would be so fucking happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 BTW back to Dirt 3 Online Pass.PC version requires it too. PC version doesn't come with a code. What's your source on that? I'm skeptical. https://twitter.com/#!/LewieP/status/72934611692433408 Head of Savvygamer, does the weekly deal posts for RPS n EG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Alice: Madness Returns is doing it right. Their online pass will activate a copy of the original game! That practically guarantees I'll be buying it new. Wait, activates it where? Is this a PC thing? Man, I hope it's for consoles too because I cannot run modern releases on my PC. It's all about my graphics card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgi Duke of Frisbee Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Alice: Madness Returns is doing it right. Their online pass will activate a copy of the original game! That practically guarantees I'll be buying it new. Wait, activates it where? Is this a PC thing? Man, I hope it's for consoles too because I cannot run modern releases on my PC. It's all about my graphics card. If I remember correctly, they also ported the original to consoles specifically for this release. http://www.joystiq.com/2011/04/20/alice-madness-returns-online-pass-grants-you-alice-1-10-ot/ Yep! It'll be the only way to get the first game on consoles, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I'm pretty sure it's for consoles too, but I could be wrong about that. Ok, so the principal is sound, it just needs to be the right content? Would you feel ok about extra levels/quests in SP campaigns, like Bioware tend to do? Yeah, as long as it's truly extra, not something cut from/really important to the main game. I thought Cerberus Network was another good example of project-10-dollar done right. You get all this bonus stuff if you have it, but if you don't your game still isn't really missing anything, so it incentivizes buying new without penalizing buying used. Online play, on the other hand, is an integral part of the game, so if you make that your project-10-dollar thing then rather than being a bonus for people who buy new it just seems like a "fuck you" to people who buy used. It's not an incentive to buy new, it's an incentive not to buy it at all because it makes it seem like the publisher is trying to gouge the customer. Once I, as a customer, think someone is trying to screw me, I'm likely to simply stop being their customer, and I'm certainly going to be a lot more reluctant to give them any more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) Online Pass doesn't artificially devalue used games. It actually devalues them. That the retailer does not recognise this is not the fault of the publisher, it's the fault of the retailer. If you try to trade in a game without a manual retailers (used to) give you less money for it and, in turn, charge the consumer less, you made the choice to buy a game without a manual knowing that you are getting less than someone who buys the game with the manual. If you then go and buy a manual separately, that's your choice. Online Pass is no different, except for the fact that retailers are slow to accept that the product has a lower value and to pass that down the chain. Artificial may have been the wrong word. It really does devalue the game and I agree with that. What I mean is that it's a forced devaluing of a game as opposed to the natural devaluing of a used product. It probably should make the trade in value of the game decrease and the resell value of the game decrease but even then you're only hurting the original customer of your game and not the person who is buying it used or the reseller. There may be a short period of time where uninformed purchasers will buy games without realizing the limitations of those used games but that will change. Customers wont get snake bit multiple times. It seems like bad business to devalue your product to it's intended purchaser. Edited May 24, 2011 by Yantelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/05/26/street-fighter-4-arcade-edition-drm/ Where does this come on the scale of "Why Would they Do That?" to "Well at least it didn't require a tracking chip too" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I think it's a "Unnecessarily stupid". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted May 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I still really wish we could produce some real numbers on whether or not DRM like this actually impacts sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I think everyone from Pirates to Publishers would love an answer to that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovach_ Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) Well, obviously not enough for them to stop using it. And here i thought Ubisoft had the worst DRM. Edited May 26, 2011 by Kovach_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 nah at least this one lets you continue playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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