DRM, Online Pass, Project Ten Dollar and the like

[fuchikoma]

I think the concept of "the full game" followed by "more stuff for the game" is the way gamers used to the PC look at things, while console gamers, who didn't have the benefit of downloading or installing extra content until this generation, really haven't grown up with the idea of there being more to the game than initially ships with it.

 

I think it's more an issue of the culture of marketing and distributing these games and how it's changed. I've played games on PC since the mid 80s, so it's not like I've never seen an expansion pack or official mods. In the 8-bit console era, the game was the game, and that's it. In the 16-bit era, it got semi-common that you'd have access to a sound test menu or maybe some neat easter eggs. Some games had unlockable characters, particularly fighters. In the "32-bit" era, some developers seemed eager to make better use of the vast expanse of a CD, so they started throwing on extra stuff like concept art, extra videos, CD audio easter eggs, and things like unlockable characters or weapons and so on. Games like Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo were absolutely gratuitous with bonus content. Then the next era ("128 bit? PS2/Dreamcast/XBox) this tradition kept on fairly well, but it seems there was less experimentation and bonuses seemed less common to me. This generation... now that all the consoles are Internet-enabled, it seems bonus content doesn't really happen anymore. Even in fighting games like Street Fighter, you don't unlock extra costumes or colors - you buy them. In games like Blazblue, you buy the extra characters, announcer voices, avatars, wallpaper, etc. Games with soundtracks? Buy them on the online store. So I think that fuelled a sentiment of being ripped off for what always used to just be on the disc since before, having little good way to sell the consumer these things, they were just in the game to make the game better.

 

 

 

It's not like I haven't seen an expansion pack or GOTY edition, but DLC is often different from that now. The GTA4 DLC chapters? Those are clearly an expansion pack. I'm not asking "why wasn't that on the disc?" It's like whole other games on top of the whole basic game. With little packs of extra content - a level or two for an action adventure game, a few cars for a race sim, a fighting game character - even when they may not have been finished at launch time, when they come out shortly after a game is released, it creates a perception that they were held back just to sell later because of the way they handle the PR. Titles like "LA Noire: Complete Edition" don't help this perception. Day 1 DLC may have taken extra time from when the game was finalized, but it raises the question of why they couldn't just finish the game before releasing it (though that opens a whole other can of worms with hard preplanned release dates, but again it's a matter of PR management, I think.) Also, as soon as the first piece of DLC hits, it creates a disparity where you may have bought the whole game, but if someone else buys the DLC, they have the whole game, and you just have the base model. It cheapens it for those who don't buy all the extras and you get things like people joining a lobby in Forza 3 to race, but you can't race because one of the people in the lobby doesn't have the track, or someone has a DLC car and it looks generic to you because you haven't bought it... In games like the Unreal Tournament series, you'd traditionally just automatically get the missing pieces and jump in. (Also, you'd get tons of free downloadable stuff later just for having the game.) Worst is when there are ads for DLC in the game - again, with Forza, there are cars you can buy with game money, and then there are cars you buy with game money AFTER you buy them with real money. You cannot get the achievement for having one car from each manufacturer if you don't buy the DLC packs. You get a lesser experience because the game was designed with a gap in it to fit the DLC.

 

So now, we have games where characters will meet your RPG party and join you, but not work until you pay real cash for them, prompts to buy DLC in dialogue trees (lost on Reddit. Dragon Age 2?) and even DLC that requires you to buy a newer version of the core game. That's not offering an expansion pack; it's just milking customers by cheapening the experience for those who don't buy extras, making the only "whole" game the full game plus add ons.

 

 

There are good and bad cases of handling modern DLC, but I really don't think it's as simple as not having experienced add ons on PC. I think a lot of it is more like how in WoW, you don't get an XP penalty for playing too much - you get a bonus for taking a break. Or, to pull a positive experience from Forza, how you win added cash for using fewer assists instead of being penalized for using more. I think some of these companies just need to find a way that it looks like they're offering an addition to a complete game instead of selling the last pieces of an incomplete one, and while modules come out so close to the launch of a game (or consist of just a paid unlock code), or the game reminds you while you're playing that you could have another feature if you buy it separately, it's going to look like they're selling a partial game then selling the rest of it regardless of what goes on behind the scenes.

[DocSeuss]

The PC "Gold" versions like Age of Empires Gold, Dawn of War Gold etc etc contain the expansion packs though. The new "complete" "GOTY Edition" stuff you get on console is part n parcel with the rise of DLC, and it's hardly like PC games still get ye olde fashioned "Gold" editions. Only one in recent memory is DOW2 (which with Retribution has fallen into the trap of DLC. £6.50 for a Tau commander? Fuck that shit, real model is as much) I think Dragon Age: Awakenings is the only expansion pack to hit console. Technically AC:Brotherhood n Halo:ODST too, but they became full games.

 

An expansion could be $20-40, though, while DLC is usually $5-10. Bundling lots of DLC means you're still getting an equivalent amount of content for the same price, no?

 

Whether or not you believe it's stuff removed from a game during development it's certainly stuff that was planned with the development of the game and never added but purposefully held back to be retailed as DLC.

 

And I don't necessarily think that's a problem any more than an expansion pack. I think it's entirely possible to make a complete game and then think about what else could be added. That's how some DLC, like Broken Steel, was created.

 

After all, in this day and age, trade-ins are a huge industry, and developers, to be profitable, need to combat them. Drip-feeding content at a lower price over the course of several months is preferable to "wait! Don't trade this game in yet! We'll release an expansion in a year! We swear!"

 

Besides, most DLC is built after the game has gone gold, and, in some cases, not complete until after the discs have been shipped. Obviously, stuff like the Catwoman DLC is pretty bad, just like the on-the-disc DLCs of Street Fighter IV (I think?) and Bioshock 2. In the case of "stuff what is available on launch day," I don't think people need to be all pissy about "THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE FINAL GAME!"

 

I think Gears of War 3, for example, is fine as-is. That it's shipping with a 3 hour solo campaign in November or December doesn't really bother me. Gears was a complete game. This is just more Gears.

[TheMightyEthan]

I picked up Dragon Age new for £30, it was cheaper to then buy Dragon Age all over again in he ultimate package than it was to buy the DLC. (Which brings up another point of DLC never dropping in price)

Yeah, it bugs the crap out of me that DLC never drops in price. I bought the Force Unleashed: Ultimate Sith Edition because even though I already had the regular edition it was cheaper than buying the DLC... then I never actually played it and like a year later sold it for $130, so score.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

DLC drops in price. Just not all of it. I see plenty of "permanent price reductions" on PSN.

[Strangelove]

Yeah, dlc not normally dropping in price sucks ass. PSN and XBL have sales every once in a while and PSN permanently drops some DLC every week, but its never anything I want or its something I already have. Its too random.

Its not like you can just think "ill wait and itll drop in price", because it might never happen. Thats my problem with it.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Yeah, that's a more accurate way to describe it.

[MasterDex]

I'm not sure I've actually bought any DLC. Seriously. I've paid for MMO subs....I guess I bought some Battleforge cards. I just tend to buy different games if I'm spending money on games. I never got into the habit of paying for DLC. Expansion packs are a different story though. I'm partial to expansion packs and gold versions.

[deanb]

I have bought:

- The castle quest in DA:O, the one that's "please help my family, look I bought my Chip&PIN machine to help it go along quicker" one.

- Uncharted 2 maps

- Buzz: Quiz TV; Sci-Fi n Video Game question packs

- Defence Grid DLC (during sale, then they went free in the Summer Camp hours later )

 

I think that's it. (Unless Shale counts too, that kinda came with the game)

[Thursday Next]

Yeah, dlc not normally dropping in price sucks ass. PSN and XBL have sales every once in a while and PSN permanently drops some DLC every week, but its never anything I want or its something I already have. Its too random.

Its not like you can just think "ill wait and itll drop in price", because it might never happen. Thats my problem with it.

 

I think digital pricing in general is something that will improve over time. Valve get it very very right. Sony, largely get it very very wrong. EA don't exactly get it right either. I was fairly impressed to see the pricing for the PSN version of BF3 is £49.99 which is only £10 over the odds (compared to Game), rather than the ridiculous £54.99 for FIFA. (I know it's still not as cheap as it should be, but at least it is moving in the right direction).

[Johnny]

I bought some Magicka DLC once. The Vietnam mini-expansion and one more. Wasn't really worth the money, not close to as good as the core game's campaign.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Sony, largely get it very very wrong

 

How so? We just pointed out that we see permanent price drops on PSN. No one is mentioning that for XBL.

[deanb]

I think Thursday was getting at when releasing the full games. For example DA: Awakenings in UK (maybe Europe too) on PS3 was only released on PS Store. No disc counterpart you could pick up. It was £37. £3 less than buying DA:O new at launch.

 

I will agree that it's not like MS don't cock it up on Marketplace too. Even gave a statement how the increased cost is for the "convenience"

[Thursday Next]

Yeah, what Dean said.

 

I should have been more clear. Sony get the initial pricing of all digital content very wrong, or at least have done in the past. They seem to be improving now.

[deanb]

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/12/03/ea-online-pass-can-expire-for-new-game-purchases-but-it-should/

 

*sigh*

[Thursday Next]

It's a teething thing, DA2 is one of the exceptions rather than the rule. I don't think the codes for new games do expire, and if you contacted CS a penny to a pound says they'd give you a new code for free.

[TheMightyEthan]

As I told dean on twitter, it's not just EA. My new copy of AC:R said that its bonus code would expire in February (I think, could be wrong about the month).

[Thursday Next]

A lot of it is down to the way systems were set up. There's probably a field for code expiry dates that has to be completed. We would normally suggest that something ludicrous like 10 or 100 years be given as the expiry date, but occasionally that doesn't happen and it's only a couple of years. Like I said, if you bought it new and the code is expired I reckon most CS agents would give you a new code.

[TheFlyingGerbil]

we'll quote you on that.

[TheMightyEthan]

lol

 

"Hello, Ubisoft customer service? ThursdayNext said you would give me a replacement code..."

 

[SomTervo]

I have bought:

- Uncharted 2 maps

 

Christ those UC2 maps were worth it.

 

I've bought UC2 maps and skins, and Killzone 2, and 3 maps. FarCry 2 Singleplayer packs. Red Dead Redemption DLC. Quite a lot of DLC, actually, now I come to think of it.

 

I research DLC a lot before I buy, it's just like buying a new game retail for me. I really make sure I'm not buying something that isn't worth it. So far, it's payed off. I really, really like a lot of DLC.

 

RE: The actual topic, I agree with the assenters. I'm pretty cool with Online passes, though I think they could be cheaper to buy and less restrictive. Also, trial periods (i.e. with rented titles) should definitely be at least 5 days. I've rented several MP-heavy games that have only 2-day Online Pass Trials, which is an utter, utter pain, and it's not like the publisher are losing much by giving a couple of extra days.

Edited December 6, 2011 by kenshi_ryden

[deanb]

http://altdevblogaday.com/2012/02/02/i-feel-used/

 

One of the guys from Volition gives his two cents on Online Pass. The tl;dr is he likes them and that consumers could be educated to like an xbox that doesn't play used or rented or borrowed games. (well, he does cover rented games but seems he has no idea how they work cos he suggest MS doing them)

 

Also "for only $60". "only". Fuck this guy really must be literally be bleeding money if $60 per game is "only $60".

 

My main issue, something I guess I've only somewhat formulated in my mind, with online passes n the like, is the fucking pass itself.

 

The whole point of consoles was "put the disc in the game and play it". Now cos devs can't be arsed to make a fucking working game you put the disc in then download the patch, then come to the menu screen, find a 2p to scratch off the foil, then input the code with your controller, then download the unlock pass, then you can finally MADE WITH BLINK VIDEO. EA CHALLENGE EVERYTHING. BIOWARE GROUP. SCALEFORMHAVOKNVIDIA. Now we can play the fucking game. Woot.

 

What the fuck. Srsly, publishers are making it worse than PC games.

 

AACTUUALLY!!!!. It's even easier on PC. Remember how I didn't know Catwoman was content slashed from Arkham City? That's cos I didn't have to input a damn code cos it's PC and PC has no fucking used market you morons. (The only two games I actually have that have online pass codes for PC are...EA Bioware games. Just include the content on the disc ffs)

 

If you're buying the game used you don't have this bother cos you've already gotten a "complete experience" without all the faffing about to put in codes to get the actual complete experience. (It reminds me of the anti-consumer anti-piracy tactics on PC games)

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

First day patches are usually developed either by a different team and/or between the period the game goes gold and it is released on shelves.

 

 

Video games are also cheaper than they've ever been given inflation and many a studio has fallen due to not making money off their games due to the high cost to make a game in the first place.

 

Also, are you drunk? I feel like this is all stuff you should know.

 

Your used game point makes no sense. You're not getting a complete experience if you can't access part of the game...

[deanb]

Your used game point makes no sense. You're not getting a complete experience if you can't access part of the game...

 

I would have thought my use of quotations marks on "complete experience" may have given away my sarcasm. It seems silly to try and push passes and buying new as awesome if buying it used and much cheaper you're getting the full experience anyway.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

...but you're not getting the full experience. Can you clarify what you mean more? Are you talking about buying it used for a dramatically lower price and then getting the pass on top of that?

[deanb]

Consumer: Why are you cutting parts out of the game to serve back to us as project $10 stuff?

Developer: Nothing is cut, you get the complete experience. The extra DLC is just us being nice and giving you free stuff.

Consumer: So in other words I could get the game much cheaper used and still get the complete experience.