Mass Effect

[TheMightyEthan]

  On 3/30/2011 at 10:44 PM, HotChops said:

I've never bothered to go for %100, but I usually have all the characters and their loyalty missions done -- except for Legion.

Why not Legion?

 

@Sana: The Reaper IFF is almost all the way through the main story.

[SanaEquiesterer]

  On 3/31/2011 at 1:20 AM, TheMightyEthan said:

@Sana: The Reaper IFF is almost all the way through the main story.

 

Really? As far as the main plot goes that doesn't make the game very long, does it? I see how essential it is to gain loyalty and upgrades, then.

 

Now I'm wondering if I should cram in the Overlord, Shadow Broker, and Arrival DLC before heading into the Omega 4 relay. Is it true that when the game is completed you can still play?

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Yeah but it throws off dialogue at places. It's best to do the DLC as if they were part of the game.

[Vargras]

  On 3/31/2011 at 3:10 AM, Faiblesse Des Sens said:

Yeah but it throws off dialogue at places. It's best to do the DLC as if they were part of the game.

 

Play Overlord BEFORE you do the Suicide Mission, and Shadow Broker/Arrival AFTER the Suicide Mission. Arrival is intended as an epilogue for ME2, and although you can play Shadow Broker at any time (and the dialogue changes accordingly), it was intended to be completed after the Suicide Mission.

 

Much of the dialogue in Overlord seems odd if you've already finished the Suicide Mission.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Given some of the um... possibilities of the suicide mission I'm surprised you're recommending that.

[HotChops]

  On 3/31/2011 at 3:10 AM, Faiblesse Des Sens said:

Yeah but it throws off dialogue at places. It's best to do the DLC as if they were part of the game.

 

Some DLC, such as Lair of the Shadow Broker, was intended to be played after completing the suicide mission. Bioware said as much.

[TheMightyEthan]

I agree with Vargras, you should do LotSB and Arrival after the suicide mission. That's the way Bioware intended it.

 

And yeah, the main story of ME2 is really short if you don't consider the recruitment/loyalty missions part of the main story. Even though they are to some extent optional, though, I consider anything in the "missions" tab of the journal to be main-story, and anything in the "assignments" tab to be a side-quest. Especially since the recruitment/loyalty missions can have such a huge effect on the final main story mission.

 

*Edit* - Also, what dialog is odd if you do Overlord after the suicide mission? I've always done it after the suicide mission and I've never noticed anything strange. (Answer in spoiler tags, please.)

[Vargras]

  On 3/31/2011 at 2:26 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

*Edit* - Also, what dialog is odd if you do Overlord after the suicide mission? I've always done it after the suicide mission and I've never noticed anything strange. (Answer in spoiler tags, please.)

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Depending on what choices you make regarding the Collector base, Shepard will outright "quit" Cerberus (the Paragon option), much to The Elusive Man's anger. However, some of the end dialogue in Overlord has Shepard stating that, "If the Elusive Man doesn't like it, he can fire me". You can't really fire someone who has already quit, now can you?

 

Besides, seems rather odd that Shepard would go help a Cerberus base if he/she had, in fact, left Cerberus.

 

 

  On 3/31/2011 at 3:17 AM, Faiblesse Des Sens said:

Given some of the um... possibilities of the suicide mission I'm surprised you're recommending that.

 

Bioware has already stated that Arrival and Shadow Broker were intended to be completed after the Suicide Mission, but the dialogue WILL change if it is done before.

 

All of Overlord's dialogue is set up with the assumption that the Suicide Mission has NOT been completed, and some parts of the dialogue seem rather strange depending on what choices you make during the Suicide Mission. I gave the best example of it under the spoiler tag.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Vargras

[Hot Heart]

Yeah, I found that small inconsistency a little funny

 

  Reveal hidden contents

beyond the fact that Cerberus are still giving you missions

 

 

Also, it's Illusive Man.

[TheMightyEthan]

I don't think it's a contradiction at all.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I never took it as Shepard quitting Cerberus, more just him telling the Illusive Man "you're not the boss of me, I do what I want." Just because he's not taking orders from Cerberus doesn't prevent him from accepting their help/helping them when he chooses to.

 

Besides, Shepard was never really working "for" Cerberus anyway, just working "with" them. So he's not quitting Cerberus, just making sure the Illusive Man knows that he's not in charge of Shepard.

 

[HotChops]

I agree.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I never saw the ending as Shepard "quitting" Cerberus so much as him telling the Illusive man to F-off.

 

 

Having said that though, I sure wish I had a "job" where I was given a cutting edge spaceship and no contractual ties.

[deanb]

  On 3/31/2011 at 7:41 PM, HotChops said:

I agree.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I never saw the ending as Shepard "quitting" Cerberus so much as him telling the Illusive man to F-off.

 

 

Having said that though, I sure wish I had a "job" where I was given a cutting edge spaceship and no contractual ties.

 

Well first of all let me throw you from the ISS, then we'll work on getting you that ship.

[Vargras]

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

When you're at the Collector base and planting the bomb, the Illusive Man will command Miranda (if she's in your squad) to stop you from blowing up the base, assuming you chose the Paragon option to destroy it. Before shutting off the transmission, she will tell the Illusive Man to consider it her resignation. In addition, post-Suicide Mission dialogue with Jacob hints at Cerberus likely attempting to retrieve their investment, I.E. Cerberus has turned against Shepard and is after him/her.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Cerberus is openly hostile to a Paragon Shepard in ME3.

 

[TheMightyEthan]

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Right, because Miranda WAS a part of Cerberus, so she can quit, but Shepard never was. Shep was always just helping Cerberus because their objective was the same as his not because he was actually a member of Cerberus, a point which Shep makes clear at numerous points throughout the game.

 

Shep does what he wants, which may include helping Cerberus from time to time.

 

[HotChops]

I think it's pretty open ended. In my view, my super-paragon Shepard never worked for Cerberus...

 

... He just commanded a Cerberus vessel with a Cerberus crew and weaponry, used Cerberus intel and a Cerberus AI and wore a Cerberus uniform

[Pirandello]

  On 3/31/2011 at 11:01 PM, HotChops said:

I think it's pretty open ended. In my view, my super-paragon Shepard never worked for Cerberus...

 

... He just commanded a Cerberus vessel with a Cerberus crew and weaponry, used Cerberus intel and a Cerberus AI and wore a Cerberus uniform

Spy Shepard says "I was never really on your side!"

[Vargras]

  On 4/1/2011 at 1:06 AM, Pirandello said:

Spy Shepard says "I was never really on your side!"

 

And then Spy Shep hits you with their elbows, since you can't actually melee at all in the game.

[TheMightyEthan]

  On 3/31/2011 at 11:01 PM, HotChops said:

I think it's pretty open ended. In my view, my super-paragon Shepard never worked for Cerberus...

 

... He just commanded a Cerberus vessel with a Cerberus crew and weaponry, used Cerberus intel and a Cerberus AI and wore a Cerberus uniform

Not just paragon, renegade too. Regardless of how you play Shepard makes it very clear throughout the entire game that he's not working for Cerberus, he's merely accepting Cerberus' help because their goals happen to be aligned. Sure he's using Cerberus equipment and getting intel from them, but he's not under their command. He's not working for Cerberus, he's working with Cerberus.

[TheMightyEthan]

  Reveal hidden contents

No, like LotSB even though you get it after Horizon it's still intended (by Bioware) to be played after the suicide mission. They've described it as the "epilogue" of ME2. Epilogues come after the end of the main story, not before.

[Vargras]

  On 4/1/2011 at 7:28 PM, Badmin said:

  On 4/1/2011 at 6:54 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

No, like LotSB even though you get it after Horizon it's still intended (by Bioware) to be played after the suicide mission. They've described it as the "epilogue" of ME2. Epilogues come after the end of the main story, not before.

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Then why is the Harbinger there? O_o That's kind of weird. Or does he get replaced by a Reaper if you do Arrival after the Suicide Mission?

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Harbinger will likely be there, regardless of whether you do it before or after. Keep in mind, Harbinger simply speaks through the Collector General. We never actually destroy Harbinger - just the puppets it uses.

 

Harbinger IS a Reaper, not the Collector General.

 

[HotChops]

ooooh, that explains a lot. Mass Effect Wikia to the rescue!

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Note: If you haven't completed the suicide mission yet, then the Collector General will be the hologram, not Harbinger. If you have completed the suicide mission, you will talk to Harbinger directly. Either way, you are still talking to Harbinger.

 

As Shepard tries to contact the Normandy, a hologram appears and Harbinger talks to you. First it says that you have become an annoyance, that you fight against inevitability, and that you are like dust against the cosmic winds. While it may seem like a victory at the cost of a star system, the galaxy’s greatest civilizations are doomed to fall and that their leaders will beg to serve the Reapers. Choose how to respond to that. Harbinger however asks Shepard to think about something while the Commander dies in vain, the galaxy’s civilizations will fall, and humanity will fall. It finishes by saying to “Prepare yourself for the Arrival”.

 

 

Oh by the way, Ethan asked earlier what happens if you fail at the end...

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Warning: As before, the countdown clock is a very real concern. You have less than 30 minutes to complete the assignment and that should be more than enough time. As before, if you allow the countdown clock to reach zero, the Reapers will arrive. A cutscene will be triggered which shows flashes of the Reapers' destruction of the galaxy, followed by the Critical Mission Failure screen.

 

 

That sounds like a cool cutscene. I've got to see that.

[Hot Heart]

  On 4/1/2011 at 8:28 PM, HotChops said:

That sounds like a cool cutscene. I've got to see that.

 

YouTube to the rescue!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

[Vargras]

  On 4/1/2011 at 9:25 PM, Hot Heart said:

  On 4/1/2011 at 8:28 PM, HotChops said:

That sounds like a cool cutscene. I've got to see that.

 

YouTube to the rescue!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

If you watch that in the 1911 view that youtube put in for April Fool's, it turns from ominous to creepily funny.

[TheMightyEthan]

  On 4/1/2011 at 7:37 PM, Badmin said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh, sorry. What I meant was Harbinger as the Collector general/controller/whatever. Does he appear in that bug form if you complete Arrival after the Suicide Mission, too? That would be really weird if you chose to destroy the Collector base. D= Which is why I was thinking that Arrival might be before the Suicide Mission canonically.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Yeah, like HotChops says, if you do it after the SM then it shows the actual reaper there, not the Collector General. I actually didn't realize it ever showed anything but Harbinger himself until you asked the question, since I've always played Arrival after the SM.

 

[AgamemnonV2]

  On 4/1/2011 at 3:43 AM, TheMightyEthan said:

  On 3/31/2011 at 11:01 PM, HotChops said:

I think it's pretty open ended. In my view, my super-paragon Shepard never worked for Cerberus...

 

... He just commanded a Cerberus vessel with a Cerberus crew and weaponry, used Cerberus intel and a Cerberus AI and wore a Cerberus uniform

Not just paragon, renegade too. Regardless of how you play Shepard makes it very clear throughout the entire game that he's not working for Cerberus, he's merely accepting Cerberus' help because their goals happen to be aligned. Sure he's using Cerberus equipment and getting intel from them, but he's not under their command. He's not working for Cerberus, he's working with Cerberus.

This has never been something I have accepted, especially with vanilla Shepard. With vanilla (also considered canon) Shepard, Cerberus is responsible for his unit's attack on Akuze. Plus there's also the side quests from the first game that show that Cerberus was part of a lot of sick and terrible experiments. It's a wall banger that he even ACCEPTS to work with Cerberus. I was really disappointed how shoe-horned you are to work for the bad guys. Just some terrible writing on Bioware's part (aside from the whole "you died" bit as well). Retcon is Bioware's motto I guess.