Mass Effect

[Luftwaffles]

So I started playing today finally.

 

 

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It's not bad so far. Still a Mass Effect game, but some things bugged the crap out of me.

I see they haven't bothered to fix Anderson's animations in the first level since the demo. Strange, because so far Kaidan, James, and Liara have moved far more smootly. Anderson just seemed like he was stuck in ME2.

I also outwardly cringed when Liara said the thing on mars about the Prothean data that could make the super weapon. Didn't expect the Deus Ex Machina to come that early.

I figure that's not how it'll actually pan out, but still, sort of irritating.

 

[Waldorf and Statler]

you have no idea how much deus ex machina comes into play.

 

whether it is deus ex machinas such as what you mentioned

 

or simply Deus Ex.

[TheMightyEthan]

tbh, there HAD to be some sort of deus ex machina. After the events of the previous games there's no way the races of the galaxy were prepared to defeat the reapers without it.

 

I did think though that their explanation later in the game for the origin of that deus ex machina from the beginning is pretty cool.

[Luftwaffles]

  On 3/22/2012 at 2:09 AM, TheMightyEthan said:

tbh, there HAD to be some sort of deus ex machina. After the events of the previous games there's no way the races of the galaxy were prepared to defeat the reapers without it.

 

I agree. I just didn't quite expect it that early in the game.

 

Also, I just chased a kid through a forest while ambient music played in the background. I don't know what that is, but I'm not sure I want it in my Mass Effect.

 

I just punched a reporter in the face. I don't think my Shepard is the type to get haunted by a single kid.

[Waldorf and Statler]

You would think Shepard would get over that kid...

 

 

but ohohohohohohoh no

 

Seems to me like that freaking kid is some developer's kid, since he was such a pivotal part of the story lol

[CorgiShinobi]

My Shepard, even though he was a nice guy, only talked about him once. Obviously you can't change how many dreams you had, but it wasn't that bad for my character.

 

It's only implied that the kid is this unique simply because Shepard would watch the kid play while he was "contained" to his living quarters. It's all rather creepy than heart-wrenching. The

 

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last dream you have (right after sex makin') where you see your Shepard knelt down by the kid holding him... Forget the flames, it was awkward before.

 

 

So yeah, in case no has noticed, I had a relatively good guy Shepard. I had a portion of Renegade, but I was overwhelmingly Paragon. The only part I was a complete raging mess physically hitting someone was

 

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yelling at that quarian admiral and punching him in the stomach. Other times I shot Udina and the Illusive Man.

 

 

I have to say though, Shepard can be a real evil SOB in Mass Effect 3. I was watching "alternate" (for me) scenes for Wrex and Mordin on Tuchanka. Oh, and for Legion and Tali. Really depressing if you're a backstabbing asshole of a Shepard.

[Waldorf and Statler]

As Shepard's mentor once said

 

In the Game of Galaxies, you either Wrex or you "lose" [but we have dismissed such claims]

[Thorgi Duke of Frisbee]

  On 3/22/2012 at 3:02 AM, Atomsk88 said:

My Shepard, even though he was a nice guy, only talked about him once. Obviously you can't change how many dreams you had, but it wasn't that bad for my character.

 

It's only implied that the kid is this unique simply because Shepard would watch the kid play while he was "contained" to his living quarters. It's all rather creepy than heart-wrenching. The

 

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last dream you have (right after sex makin') where you see your Shepard knelt down by the kid holding him... Forget the flames, it was awkward before.

 

 

So yeah, in case no has noticed, I had a relatively good guy Shepard. I had a portion of Renegade, but I was overwhelmingly Paragon. The only part I was a complete raging mess physically hitting someone was

 

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yelling at that quarian admiral and punching him in the stomach. Other times I shot Udina and the Illusive Man.

 

 

I have to say though, Shepard can be a real evil SOB in Mass Effect 3. I was watching "alternate" (for me) scenes for Wrex and Mordin on Tuchanka. Oh, and for Legion and Tali. Really depressing if you're a backstabbing asshole of a Shepard.

Can you tell me if

 

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You were able to save the Quarians and the Geth at the same time? I thought saving the Geth would let me tell the troops to stand down, but the Quarians were massacred, and Tali killed herself.

 

[Mister Jack]

So I'm curious. We've already heard from Dean, but if you guys could make a completely different ending, what would you do? Let's just pretend the last ten minutes don't exist and every potential explanation is a blank slate.

[Waldorf and Statler]

yes you can Duke. You need about 80% either Renegade or Paragorn [as in when you subtract the smallest bar to the biggest bar, you still have 3/4 of the bar of that color]

 

also you need to

 

 

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do both of the side missions before the main mission in Rannoch. Especially save the admiral/whatever of the civilian fleet as he'll support you when you try to calm them down

 

[TheMightyEthan]

@Mister Jack, mine's pretty similar to dean's:

 

 

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I would have your War Assets determine whether you're able to successfully get the Crucible to the Citadel. If they're not high enough then the Crucible gets destroyed en route and the reapers win. Above a certain threshold you're successful but take losses to your fleet depending on how high your assets are. I'd also have customized events/scenes depending specifically on who you were able to get to your side and whatnot. I'd probably still have the Catalyst stuff with the kid and the choice about what to do with the reapers, but then I'd have an epilogue explaining the consequences of your decision, also customized based on your major choices in the past. I would have stuck with the original dark matter reason though, and the original choice of destroying the reapers and hoping the races of the galaxy can stop the dark matter or allowing the reapers to continue so they can stop it. I wouldn't have the game define which of those options is paragon and which is renegade.

 

If we could go back farther, I wouldn't have had the reapers bring the citadel to earth, I would have them trying to take the citadel and your war assets determining whether they're successful or not, and whether you're able to get the crucible in position and activated without it being destroyed. The rest would be the same as above.

 

If we go back farther still, but to something much more minor but just kind of struck me as lame, I would have had a much bigger distinction between the effects of killing or saving the Rachni queen in ME1. If you saved her then I would have had the Rachni actually have set up their own little civilization in hiding, and have a fleet that is added to yours. In the mission with Grunt I would have had the good Rachni also show up to help destroy the indoctrinated Rachni (they can "hear her song" or whatever and know that bad shit's goin down). The good Rachni would immediately kill the indoctrinated queen, not giving you the option to save her. If you killed the queen in ME1 then that mission would play out as it does now.

 

[CorgiShinobi]

Yeah I was able to do that because I did what W&S said. I didn't look it up or anything, I just knew I had to complete the little things before the big mission.

 

Now when it comes to the Illusive Man...

 

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It looks like you need 100% of either Paragon or Renegade to choose their dialogue choices in that conversation.

 

 

Good thing there's YouTube!

[Waldorf and Statler]

My perfect ending:

 

 

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In fact anything with Marauder Shields is gold in my book. Love that guy.

[Mister Jack]

  On 3/22/2012 at 4:02 AM, Atomsk88 said:

Yeah I was able to do that because I did what W&S said. I didn't look it up or anything, I just knew I had to complete the little things before the big mission.

 

Now when it comes to the Illusive Man...

 

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It looks like you need 100% of either Paragon or Renegade to choose their dialogue choices in that conversation.

 

 

Good thing there's YouTube!

 

 

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Nope. I can attest that I was not at 100% and I could still pick the final choice.

 

[Waldorf and Statler]

I think I read in an online guide that they way you get the option is if

 

 

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you use a paragon/renegade option throughout every single encounter you have with him. There are 6 total, 1 at the beginning, 1 or 2 right before the end, and the rest in the last convo. So if you didn't ask for more info when you were talking to him, as that was the only way to be given the paragon/renegade option, you wouldnt be able to get it. I had 90%+ and didn't get the option to make him kill himself, but I did get to shoot him before he killed anybody.

 

[jimmuhpage]

I would completely get rid of

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Reaper fight in Rannoch.

What a complete waste of time (gameplay wise).

 

Ok, in second thought, maybe not completely get rid of it, but at least change it so that it's interesting to play. Run, aim, charge, run aim charge, run aim charge. Oh? You charged it all the way? Great! Now do it 3 more times. Way to put a damper on my favorite part of the game.

[CorgiShinobi]

  On 3/22/2012 at 4:15 AM, Waldorf And Statler said:

I think I read in an online guide that they way you get the option is if

 

 

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you use a paragon/renegade option throughout every single encounter you have with him. There are 6 total, 1 at the beginning, 1 or 2 right before the end, and the rest in the last convo. So if you didn't ask for more info when you were talking to him, as that was the only way to be given the paragon/renegade option, you wouldnt be able to get it. I had 90%+ and didn't get the option to make him kill himself, but I did get to shoot him before he killed anybody.

 

I thought for sure I did every

 

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Paragon convo response, so for me the 100% seemed correct. There was another online source saying that you needed a higher amount of Reputation, but I had a lot of reputation. Also doesn't make sense...

 

 

I guess it's easier to believe I done goofed somewhere early on in the game. Still, I think I preferred my outcome (same as your's).

 

Also, I just discovered that there are two different outcomes to the Rachni Queen.

 

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This whole time online I was under the impression that the Rachni Queen in ME3 was always the artificial one. Turns out if you saved the Rachni Queen in ME1, that queen is the same one. Thus, if you do release her, you will get a permanent 100 War Asset. If you killed the queen in ME1, then it's an artificial queen that you shouldn't release. You do get 100, but near the end of the game she betrays you and you lose 200 War Assets (Rachni and -100 Alliance Engineer Corp). So yeah, kinda regret not saving the queen in my interactive comic. At least Grunt still lived.

 

[Vargras]

  On 3/22/2012 at 4:26 AM, jimmuhpage said:

I would completely get rid of

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Reaper fight in Rannoch.

What a complete waste of time (gameplay wise).

 

Ok, in second thought, maybe not completely get rid of it, but at least change it so that it's interesting to play. Run, aim, charge, run aim charge, run aim charge. Oh? You charged it all the way? Great! Now do it 3 more times. Way to put a damper on my favorite part of the game.

 

It got my heart pumping on the first playthrough, but every time after the first was basically "Oh, yeah... gotta do this again. Damn."

[deanb]

  On 3/22/2012 at 2:46 AM, Waldorf And Statler said:

You would think Shepard would get over that kid...

 

but ohohohohohohoh no

 

Seems to me like that freaking kid is some developer's kid, since he was such a pivotal part of the story lol

I saw John Walker on RPS argue that

 

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the kid is a symbolic representation of the loss that Shepard had been through. Forget it's panzy attempt at explaining how awesome the ending was, but you'd have thought if it was the case, like Jodie Fosters dad, it'd be someone more significant. In fact I'd have had it so that at some point in the game you have a kind of Virmire again just with Liara/Garrus/Kaiden/Tali and losing one of them. And then having those in the place of the star child. Then it kinda makes sense. You actually have an attachment to them instead of some kid that was involved in a single conversation and short cutscene. At least then it would be unmistakable that the being at the end isn't actually that kid and has been all along, or some kind of hallucination, but is in fact pulled from shepards mind as sort of emotional blackmail.

 

 

 

  On 3/22/2012 at 3:15 AM, DukeOfPwn said:

Can you tell me if

 

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You were able to save the Quarians and the Geth at the same time? I thought saving the Geth would let me tell the troops to stand down, but the Quarians were massacred, and Tali killed herself.

 

This was covered earlier (go back many pages to me throwing a table). Yeah they can both be saved, but yeah the choice isn't actually very clear.

 

 

  On 3/22/2012 at 4:26 AM, jimmuhpage said:

I would completely get rid of

  Reveal hidden contents

Reaper fight in Rannoch.

What a complete waste of time (gameplay wise).

 

Ok, in second thought, maybe not completely get rid of it, but at least change it so that it's interesting to play. Run, aim, charge, run aim charge, run aim charge. Oh? You charged it all the way? Great! Now do it 3 more times. Way to put a damper on my favorite part of the game.

See I would have put something like that near the end. Though yeah, spiced up the gameplay a bit. Instead we get waves of enemies while calibrating missiles :/

 

  On 3/22/2012 at 3:55 AM, TheMightyEthan said:

 

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If we go back farther still, but to something much more minor but just kind of struck me as lame, I would have had a much bigger distinction between the effects of killing or saving the Rachni queen in ME1. If you saved her then I would have had the Rachni actually have set up their own little civilization in hiding, and have a fleet that is added to yours. In the mission with Grunt I would have had the good Rachni also show up to help destroy the indoctrinated Rachni (they can "hear her song" or whatever and know that bad shit's goin down). The good Rachni would immediately kill the indoctrinated queen, not giving you the option to save her. If you killed the queen in ME1 then that mission would play out as it does now.

 

 

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The Rachni stuff struck me as kinda lame too. Especially the outcome. Seems odd that there's enough rachni to make entire invasion forces out of them over multiple planets. But only enough non-reaper rachni to help aboard the crucible? It has been several years since I saved them. From what we know of the rachni they'd have a sizeable force at that point. Not having some kind of fleet in the final battle seemed odd. Maybe statistically so few people chose to save her they couldn't be bothered to make an FMV that took that into account? (Since killing her in ME1 would have her kill off folks in the crucible)

 

[Hot Heart]

  On 3/22/2012 at 9:14 AM, Deanb said:

This was covered earlier (go back many pages to me throwing a table). Yeah they can both be saved, but yeah the choice isn't actually very clear.

 

I found it very clear. Since it's the main situation during that whole section and then explained to you before it happens. Just relies on having a high enough reputation (plus other variables, I think).

 

Also, FFS, people. It's not a Deus Ex Machina if it's been established at some point before the end. From what I can gather it was set in motion in ME1. I know you guys like using that term though, so carry on...

Edited March 22, 2012 by Hot Heart

[deanb]

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As I explained many pages back the motivation for total destruction of the opposing side was a Quarian thing, the Geth simply defending their home. You were even shown in the VR that once the Quarian fucked off far enough away the Geth gave up pursuit as they have no intention to totally wipe out the qaurians. The two choices you are given as paragon/renegade present a choice that would seemingly have the quarians wipe out all the geth while having a bit of upgrading downtime(Rally the fleet/warn the fleet). The Quarians throughout had shown to be bloodthirsty in their intent to destroy the Geth, to the point of almost killing you in the process of their chance to take out the geth battleship. This leaves us with a neutral option. Which turns out to be "have the Geth kill all the quarians" yet on screen it says "continue the upload".

[Hot Heart]

 

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The choice is to give the Geth the 'higher' intelligence or use the situation to your advantage and let the Quarians destroy them. It was not the same as the original conflict anymore. Because the Geth faced extinction, they wouldn't hesitate in defending themselves and why they went to the Reapers in the first place. If you choose to upload the code in the first place, that is when the option to warn/rally the fleet or continue the upload comes up. Since you're telling the Quarians to back off or be wiped out by fully-functioning, upgraded Geth. Tali even protests against what you're doing, explaining it.

 

Maybe you want more warning of what the initial choice meant? I just checked the scene again. It's made perfectly clear.

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2012 by Hot Heart

[deanb]

 

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I know the initial choice is to allow the Geth to upgrade or not. (which I'm to understand if you pick "or not" then Legion turns on you, same as if you stop the upgrade the second time the option comes up). Yes the Geth are defending themselves, as far as they care they're repelling an invading force from their home planet. You've been shown in the VR moments before the Geth are not a wholly hostile/over-destructive species. Even the loyalty mission in ME2 makes it pretty clear the geth that teamed up with Sovereign in ME1 were a random few, the rest choosing to remain at rannoch out of the conflict. This is opposed to how the Quarians are continually being portrayed as overly bloodthristy and blind in their war against the Geth, the missions you do previously, and the immediate response of "keep firing" when told to stand down reinforcing this point. Tali getting all upset that the geth are being upgraded is Quarian upbringing, she is naturally opposed to them. Letting them exist is bad enough, letting them become even better, to become true AI, even worse. She's also unaware of how the original war played out unlike Shepard/the player so not like she's had much beyond contact with legion to sway her prejudices.

 

Also just watched a video. The "Rally the fleet" option doesn't even rally the fleet but gets them to stand down :/ Shepard even points out the Geth don't want to wipe them out(as the game has reinforced over n over again). ARGH this gets even more confusing and unclear.

Can't find a "warn the fleet" run through though.

 

[Hot Heart]

 

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I don't understand your confusion. The only thing I can guess is that you seem to think 'rally' means 'send to war', when it means to bring someone to your cause. So, when you say you're uploading the code, you and Tali are then trying to make the Quarians back off and end things peacefully. That is what you are rallying them to.

 

The Geth are willing to make peace with the Quarians but they're still not going to stand by and let themselves get wiped out. Like I said: whole reason the Geth went over to the Reapers after ME2. Legion is giving you a sense that peace can be found, not a guarantee.

 

The whole idea is that there is no neutral option. You're taking a big risk either way. Same as to whether you can trust the Krogan to stay in line if you cure the Genophage. You assume you could trust Wrex and Eve (athough, he makes some concerning comments at a critical time). Could you trust Wreav (and Eve)?

 

 

I will say, that's what I like about a lot of the situations in the game. It gives you a personal investment, with prior circumstances, and still allows you to influence the outcome.

 

 

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Think the Quarians are all bloodthirsty fools? Let them get wiped out. But perhaps you saw the good in Tali and Korlis or the fact that a lot of their fleet are merely civilians forced to act as a unified whole? You saw there were Quarians willing to defend the Geth, why not again? Maybe you feel the Geth would make better allies.

 

Edited March 22, 2012 by Hot Heart

[deanb]

  On 3/22/2012 at 11:21 AM, Hot Heart said:

 

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The only thing I can guess is that you seem to think 'rally' means 'send to war'

 

 

 

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That is what it means though.

  Quote

ral·ly/ˈralē/

Verb:

(of troops) Come together again in order to continue fighting after a defeat or dispersion.

 

What he actually calls for is a ceasefire.

It's why I much preferred DA:O over Mass Effect series. The choices are all WYSIWYG, no differences between the choices given and what your character actually says/does.

 

Yes I know the Geth wont let themselves be wiped out, but they've shown no signs of wanting to wipe out the entirety of the quarians either. The game has gone out of its way to show you this. The only time the geth have been overly hostile is under the Reapers, and not moments before this scene you'd disabled the reaper control making the Geth normal again. You're even given assurances that the upload of the reaper code will still keep the geth independent.

 

And there is a neutral option. The game has three outcomes of the geth being wiped out, the quarians being wiped out, or peaceful cooperation. These don't line up at all with paragon/renegade/neutral mind.

 

And just cos the quarians were blood thirsty doesn't mean I wanted to have them wiped out. Certainly didn't want to have Tali go cliff diving. As I've maybe failed to specify, I wanted them both as allies. I didn't have the quarians wiped out on purpose. If I had I wouldn't have been pissed with the outcome of the options. And given the options presented I wouldn't even know what to pick that'd purposefully get the quarians killed

 

 

 

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