Mass Effect

[TheMightyEthan]

I agree that some of the stuff was unnecessary

 

 

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like specifically showing Shep get thrown up the tube, but I liked that the voiceovers at the end actually acknowledge that something is different as a result of your actions now, and the explanation for how the fuck your squad got back to the Normandy (even if the explanation seems a little silly). I don't think there was a logical explanation for that before, because it seemed as though you'd seen a continuous scene, and that the Normandy had been up in space the whole time, but then suddenly your squadmates were on board. I think "Wait, how did they get there?" is a logical question.

 

As I said in a previous post though there is some stuff that seems lame, like how they mysteriously were able to repair the massive damage to the Normandy on an uninhabited planet with no shipyard facilities. I would have been perfectly fine with it still ending with the Normandy crew trapped on that planet.

 

 

Overall though I think this is a definite improvement.

[Waldorf and Statler]

Strangelove weren't you just saying that you hated people being negative towards stuff you like?

[Strangelove]

 

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Were some of these really that hard to grasp? I cant believe no one thought of the obvious scenario surrounding the departure of the Normandy? Why the fuck would it stick around when everything is being destroyed? Not to mention that all the ships were connected so they would have been warned someway. Is it just because you feel that they wouldnt have ever let Shepard behind? I feel they would, especially with how narrow the chance of success was. Youre not going to kill yourself and all your friends for one friend. Thats crazy.

 

And as far as landing in the jungle, thats just one small section of an entire planet. Who knows what could be around. Chances are it's already enhabited by another civilization for all we know. I dont think thats too hard to actually be the case. Its not as doom and gloom as it seems.

 

I chose to destroy all synthetic life. They can rebuild all that stuff, including the relays, all my friends aside from EDI lived, and Shepard lived too. Everyone was saved aside from the Geth, EDI and other random robots and shit.

 

[Strangelove]

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:02 PM, Waldorf And Statler said:

Strangelove weren't you just saying that you hated people being negative towards stuff you like?

 

Yeah, what's your point? I liked the endings even before they were expanded. I also dont feel the new expansions to be detrimental. I like those too. Im not being negative towards them, I just think theyre obvious. I like stuff. Its what I do.

I just hate people. I dont mind that. Youre free to hate whoever you want. These endings arent about to change any minds, especially the ones who signed petitions and sent cupcakes, the folks who needed these most wont get any benefit from this. The only ones who will like this are the ones who already liked the endings as they were or just thought they were "ok."

[Waldorf and Statler]

No i hated the ending and I'm ok with this.

[Strangelove]

Really? It didn't change anything. Same ending and everything. I cant see how it logically goes from "shit" to "good" when there's no difference in it's conclusion, which is all it is. They just basically added "and everyone lived happily ever after, for the most part" to the end. Which is something I assumed anyways. There was already proof of that in the basic ending anyways.

I just don't see how these endings were so confusing to people. And Im not trying to insult people's intelligence, but I just cant see how expanding it changed it.

 

Its like people wanting an explanation on why their girlfriend broke up with them. No matter what the reason, they still broke up with you. It wont make you feel any better and closure isnt instant, it takes a while to truly grasp it.

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, I really didn't like the original endings either and I like these a lot.

 

And I can't speak for others, but

 

 

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the Normandy having left the battle only bothered me because it seemed like they were the only ship to have left, in the original cutscenes it looked like the rest of the fleet was still hanging around, and there was no explanation given for why the Normandy would have been leaving but no one else. The "assume this is what happened" approach you're advocating only makes sense if you have enough information to come to a logical conclusion. Just saying that well, there must be some reason is a huge copout.

 

[TheMightyEthan]

I didn't have a problem with what happened in the ending ever, I just had a problem with how it was completely not fleshed out. They've fleshed it out now so I'm happy.

 

In fact, where they actually did change events, like

 

 

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with the Normandy getting off the planet

 

 

it kind of bugged me.

[Hot Heart]

It's not so much that everyone needed an explanation, just that the whole thing was poorly-paced and abrupt with a few glaring plotholes or just dumb crap. And it's always nice to see a better denouement rather than a vague, suggestive one. It was the end of a trilogy, not a two-hour film. Not one for analogies but no one would've liked LOTR to end with the ring falling into the lava, followed by a clip of eagles flying to Mount Doom, Aragon wearing a crown and Gandalf getting on a ship (although that film could've done with a few less endings...)

 

Plus, I think the more important bit was fleshing out the starkid nonsense and it helped assert the themes and ideas a lot more clearly.

[Strangelove]

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:32 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

Yeah, I really didn't like the original endings either and I like these a lot.

 

And I can't speak for others, but

 

 

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the Normandy having left the battle only bothered me because it seemed like they were the only ship to have left, in the original cutscenes it looked like the rest of the fleet was still hanging around, and there was no explanation given for why the Normandy would have been leaving but no one else. The "assume this is what happened" approach you're advocating only makes sense if you have enough information to come to a logical conclusion. Just saying that well, there must be some reason is a huge copout.

 

 

 

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And I never even thought about that. Mostly because I didn't really care. Lots of soldiers died in this game, so if more died I honestly wouldnt question it. If anything, its something that I would think happened. As long as my characters are fine, thats all I care about. Especially with the cards we were dealt. There wasnt going to be any truly happy ending, so I didnt look for one. All my assumptions were based on what the game had done up to that point. KIlling off Thane and Mordis without my sayso was kind of a sign to what was going to happen in the end. Or did no one else see it coming?

 

[Strangelove]

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:38 PM, Hot Heart said:

It's not so much that everyone needed an explanation, just that the whole thing was poorly-paced and abrupt with a few glaring plotholes or just dumb crap. And it's always nice to see a better denouement rather than a vague, suggestive one. It was the end of a trilogy, not a two-hour film. Not one for analogies but no one would've liked LOTR to end with the ring falling into the lava, followed by a clip of eagles flying to Mount Doom, Aragon wearing a crown and Gandalf getting on a ship (although that film could've done with a few less endings...)

 

Plus, I think the more important bit was fleshing out the starkid nonsense and it helped assert the themes and ideas a lot more clearly.

 

Actually, I would have liked a shorter ending to Return of The King. The ending was awful because of how long it was. Did we really need verification that they went off to do what they set out to do? Did 20 endings really hold anything else other than things people can just assume?

After all was said and done, the endings didnt really matter after the ring was destroyed.

 

Seriously, that was such an awful ending.

[Hot Heart]

With the Normandy thing it was more...

 

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your squadmates teleporting aboard despite charging the beam with you, and the fact they are completely unharmed. It does look like they just abandoned you outright, like "Oh, well, Shepard died. Never mind. Off we go."

 

[Strangelove]

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:47 PM, Hot Heart said:

With the Normandy thing it was more...

 

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your squadmates teleporting aboard despite charging the beam with you, and the fact they are completely unharmed. It does look like they just abandoned you outright, like "Oh, well, Shepard died. Never mind. Off we go."

 

 

 

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I just assumed that they couldnt get to the beam. Maybe the beam disappeared, maybe the beam didnt work anymore, or they physically couldnt get to it. What were they going to do? Stand around waiting?

 

[TheMightyEthan]

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:42 PM, Strangelove said:

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:32 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

Yeah, I really didn't like the original endings either and I like these a lot.

 

And I can't speak for others, but

 

 

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the Normandy having left the battle only bothered me because it seemed like they were the only ship to have left, in the original cutscenes it looked like the rest of the fleet was still hanging around, and there was no explanation given for why the Normandy would have been leaving but no one else. The "assume this is what happened" approach you're advocating only makes sense if you have enough information to come to a logical conclusion. Just saying that well, there must be some reason is a huge copout.

 

 

 

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And I never even thought about that. Mostly because I didn't really care. Lots of soldiers died in this game, so if more died I honestly wouldnt question it. If anything, its something that I would think happened. As long as my characters are fine, thats all I care about. Especially with the cards we were dealt. There wasnt going to be any truly happy ending, so I didnt look for one. All my assumptions were based on what the game had done up to that point. KIlling off Thane and Mordis without my sayso was kind of a sign to what was going to happen in the end. Or did no one else see it coming?

 

 

I don't even see how that relates to what I wrote...

 

 

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Though now that I think about it you may have misread what I said. I didn't mean they were the only ship left alive, I meant that it appeared that they were the only ship that left the area. It seemed like the other ships were still in combat around Earth, and that Normandy just left for some unknown reason. That's what bothered me. If it had made it seem like everyone else died and the Normandy was the only one to escape I would have been fine with that.

 

[deanb]

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:38 PM, Hot Heart said:

Not one for analogies but no one would've liked LOTR to end with the ring falling into the lava, followed by a clip of eagles flying to Mount Doom, Aragon wearing a crown and Gandalf getting on a ship (although that film could've done with a few less endings...).

Actually the film had less endings than the book, disappointingly so for some of us. And in the Extended Edition (the version of the trilogy so long each film is split across two books) they changed it so Wormtounge stabs Saruman and he falls off Isengard, instead of the original book ending of them sneaking out n taking over Hobbiton while folks are resting in Rivendell. It's why Galadriel gives Sam a tree seed, he uses it to replace the trees cut down by Sarumans fledgling second army.

 

...I'll shut up now

[Strangelove]

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:51 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:42 PM, Strangelove said:

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:32 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

Yeah, I really didn't like the original endings either and I like these a lot.

 

And I can't speak for others, but

 

 

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the Normandy having left the battle only bothered me because it seemed like they were the only ship to have left, in the original cutscenes it looked like the rest of the fleet was still hanging around, and there was no explanation given for why the Normandy would have been leaving but no one else. The "assume this is what happened" approach you're advocating only makes sense if you have enough information to come to a logical conclusion. Just saying that well, there must be some reason is a huge copout.

 

 

 

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And I never even thought about that. Mostly because I didn't really care. Lots of soldiers died in this game, so if more died I honestly wouldnt question it. If anything, its something that I would think happened. As long as my characters are fine, thats all I care about. Especially with the cards we were dealt. There wasnt going to be any truly happy ending, so I didnt look for one. All my assumptions were based on what the game had done up to that point. KIlling off Thane and Mordis without my sayso was kind of a sign to what was going to happen in the end. Or did no one else see it coming?

 

 

I don't even see how that relates to what I wrote...

 

 

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Though now that I think about it you may have misread what I said. I didn't mean they were the only ship left alive, I meant that it appeared that they were the only ship that left the area. It seemed like the other ships were still in combat around Earth, and that Normandy just left for some unknown reason. That's what bothered me. If it had made it seem like everyone else died and the Normandy was the only one to escape I would have been fine with that.

 

 

 

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So the problem was that they didn't specify WHEN it happened? That I can understand. If they left in the middle of the fight, then theyd look like dicks.

I just assumed that they stayed. Then left once that was done because my characters arent dicks.

 

I dunno. Its just one of those things I cant grasp, like racism, or why JNCO's were ever popular. Its not built into me, so I cant learn it on any level.

Hot Heart brought up LOTR and I guess thats kind of a good analogy. I didnt need to see Aragorn being crowned. I assumed that he was going to be the king because its called "Return of The King" and because the trilogy indicated that everyone was going to get a happy ending. I never thought any of the main(well liked) characters was going to die. That doesnt happen in LOTR

For ME3 though, like I said, once they killed of two of my favorite characters without my consent, I knew I wouldnt get a happy ending anymore. I knew Bioware took the reigns and were going to crash into something bittersweet. I was prepared for it, so it didnt bother me too much when it actually happened. I hope that makes some sort of sense.

 

Edited June 28, 2012 by Strangelove

[TheMightyEthan]

Re "WHEN it happened": exactly.

 

  On 6/28/2012 at 12:00 AM, Strangelove said:

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For ME3 though, like I said, once they killed of two of my favorite characters without my consent, I knew I wouldnt get a happy ending anymore. I knew Bioware took the reigns and were going to crash into something bittersweet. I was prepared for it, so it didnt bother me too much when it actually happened. I hope that makes some sort of sense.

 

It does, but

 

 

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for me the problem was never the lack of a happy ending. I'm perfectly fine with no happy ending. I just wanted more explanation of what happened after firing the Crucible. I got that, so now i'm happy.

 

[Hot Heart]

Oh, god, it was never about a happy ending, that's for sure. The whole game is 'victory through sacrifice'. Though there are lots of stupid people who think differently.

 

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:50 PM, Strangelove said:

 

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I just assumed that they couldnt get to the beam. Maybe the beam disappeared, maybe the beam didnt work anymore, or they physically couldnt get to it. What were they going to do? Stand around waiting?

 

 

 

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Where would that even fit into the timeline of events though? Someone needed to get to the beam and everyone clears off when they think Shepard's dead (and they say the whole Hammer team is dead). Either your squadmates would have continued fighting and got to the beam or died alongside you.

 

[deanb]

People weren't bothered that it wasn't all sunshine n rainbows (much, you were at least able to come out perfect on the suicide mission of 2 if you played cards right, but ME3 didn't really present that possibility). Actually did you palky ME2? Just you commented earlier you wouldn't expect your squad to participate in some act of suicide in potentially rescuing shepard, when they went on a suicide mission at the end of 2 so it's certainly on the cards for them. (Actually didn't you only play ME2, you were a PS3 player yeah?)

[Strangelove]

  On 6/28/2012 at 12:09 AM, Hot Heart said:

Oh, god, it was never about a happy ending, that's for sure. The whole game is 'victory through sacrifice'. Though there are lots of stupid people who think differently.

 

  On 6/27/2012 at 11:50 PM, Strangelove said:

 

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I just assumed that they couldnt get to the beam. Maybe the beam disappeared, maybe the beam didnt work anymore, or they physically couldnt get to it. What were they going to do? Stand around waiting?

 

 

 

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Where would that even fit into the timeline of events though? Someone needed to get to the beam and everyone clears off when they think Shepard's dead (and they say the whole Hammer team is dead). Either your squadmates would have continued fighting and got to the beam or died alongside you.

 

 

 

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Well, Admiral Hackett was able to communicate with Shepard once he/she was inside the catalyst/citadel. That's when I assume they stopped trying to head towards the beam. Your team could have been fighting that entire time. Especially with harbinger there to take up their time.

 

[Hot Heart]

  On 6/28/2012 at 12:15 AM, Strangelove said:

 

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Well, Admiral Hackett was able to communicate with Shepard once he/she was inside the catalyst/citadel. That's when I assume they stopped trying to head towards the beam. Your team could have been fighting that entire time. Especially with harbinger there to take up their time.

 

 

 

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Harbinger flies off elsewhere as Shepard is waking up and everyone else is gone. You see how inconsistent it is? Even the 'solution' is faintly silly.

 

[Strangelove]

  On 6/28/2012 at 12:17 AM, Hot Heart said:

  On 6/28/2012 at 12:15 AM, Strangelove said:

 

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Well, Admiral Hackett was able to communicate with Shepard once he/she was inside the catalyst/citadel. That's when I assume they stopped trying to head towards the beam. Your team could have been fighting that entire time. Especially with harbinger there to take up their time.

 

 

 

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Harbinger flies off elsewhere as Shepard is waking up and everyone else is gone. You see how inconsistent it is? Even the 'solution' is faintly silly.

 

 

Ok. That makes more sense. I never really noticed that.

 

 

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But see, my team members didnt appear in my ending. I assumed they died like everyone else. Were yours on the Normandy? I picked Garrus and EDI, if that matters. They werent in the ending. Obviously because EDI was destroyed along with the other synthetics.

 

Garrus DID show up in the new ending though. But they did show the Normandy coming back for him and EDI. It worked out for me either way.

 

[Hot Heart]

 

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Yeah, I understand how it wouldn't look odd if you never saw your teammates after that (and I think they die in a low-EMS playthrough), but there were plenty of people wondering how they got on the Normandy if they were fighting by your side, myself included.

 

The EC fixes it, even though that scene feels a bit stupid.

 

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, my squad mates

 

 

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were always on the Normandy at the end. That's the teleportation everyone was wondering about. If yours weren't on the Normandy it totally makes sense that it wouldn't have seemed weird to you.

 

[Strangelove]

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Yeah, the Normandy coming back to pick up my party members took me off guard. It was so weird. I cant say I even really liked it. Something about it seemed iffy. I just thought it was too risky to bring the Normandy back to earth in front of Harbinger and tons of other enemies to pick up two people.