Mass Effect

[Eleven]

So many good points, which I agree with, to an extent. Don't have much time to type in a response now, but I will later, as I did raise the question in a "what's wrong with you? you don't like the ending!??" kind of way.

 

And yes, it will be about the endings.

[CorgiShinobi]

How many people saved the rachni queen in the first game?

 

Of all the things I would change, I would probably have saved the queen now. The downside with the interactive comic for ME2 on PS3 is that context wasn't always enough. You're only given a "considered a threat long ago, but promises to keep to themselves" description.

 

EDIT: To me "threat + promise" didn't seem good enough.

 

I mention this because I've...

 

freed the surrogate rachni queen. If I were to apply it to the game, I guess my Shepard feels guilt for his previous action. It gave me Renegade points, so I'm really wondering where this will lead me.

 

 

Of all my decisions, I keep seeing that saving the Council and killing the rachni queen have been prominent. In the Shadow Broker DLC, my Shepard was proving how much of a badass he was and mentioned he killed the last rachni queen.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Atomsk88

[Hot Heart]

I don't think you're ever give a guarantee with the Rachni Queen in ME1. You just have to trust that it's the Paragon option. I think it would've been cool if killing her meant no Rachni husks in ME3 (or at least none after that one mission). You could replace the enemies with something weaker as a sort of 'pay-off'.

 

I'm liking how differently my playthrough is going in some key areas compared to a close friend's. Although, Garrus is dead in his game despite his belief that he did not die in ME2...

[Hot Heart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O90jttdZbM4

And, only rumours, but I really did think it was odd not having a Krogan with biotics. Definitely something I would like to see.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Hot Heart

[TheMightyEthan]

Of all the things I would change, I would probably have saved the queen now. The downside with the interactive comic for ME2 on PS3 is that context wasn't always enough. You're only given a "considered a threat long ago, but promises to keep to themselves" description.

 

EDIT: To me "threat + promise" didn't seem good enough.

 

That's all you got if you actually played Mass Effect 1 too. I mean, there was a situation around it, but it boiled down to you already knew the Rachni had almost conquered the galaxy millenia ago, but that this one was saying "if you let me go I promise to be good." You still had to take her at her word.

[Vargras]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O90jttdZbM4

 

And, only rumours, but I really did think it was odd not having a Krogan with biotics. Definitely something I would like to see.

 

I'll be completely honest - if they ever added playable Geth as paid DLC, I'd buy it. No questions asked. From what little we got to see of him (it, I suppose) in Mass Effect 2, I loved Legion, and I especially liked it in ME3.

 

Besides, 'geth do not infiltrate'.

[Eleven]

OK. So here goes. Forgive the very long post.

 

 

Why I like the ending:

 

Because the ending is true to how the game shows you the choices, specifically how paragon and renegade choices are given. You choose what your Shepard will do in every game. Kill the rachni queen or save her. Save the council, or the human fleet. Salvage the collector base, or screw your values, this base is so important. The ending, control the reapers, or destroy them (plus synthesis ending - I'll get to that in a bit). The ending is just another choice you have to make, just like what you were doing for the rest of the trilogy, especially in each of the game's endings.

 

Not only that, but the ending, IMO, is the perfect Paragon or Renegade option. The paragon path sometimes makes Shepard look naïve, but it's Shepard always taking the high road. The ME2 ending, even with all that salvageable(?) data in the collector base, Shepard chooses to destroy it, because he is true to his values. The renegade path makes you seem like a jerk (which cool/not cool depending on how you perceive it), but it's always about getting the job done, and if there are terrible consequences, deal with it. The ME2 ending, even though that collector base is tainted with the death of thousands of human souls, the fact of the matter is it has data he could use to stop the reapers. So, basically, deal with it.

 

The ME3 ending is even better. At every conversation with the Illusive Man, Paragon Shepard is convinced the Illusive Man is wrong. If we control the reapers, then we are no better than them. But it turns out, the Illusive Man was right (but misguided). Faced with the choices, Paragon Shep could never go with the option to destroy the reapers, because it would mean killing the Geth, who just got some kind of individuality, and EDI, who is starting to find out what humanity means. No, he couldn't do that to his allies, so he sucks it up, basically admits the Illusive Man was right all along (misguided goal, though), and controls them, kinda doing a complete 360 on his belief, but there was a very good reason to do so.

I haven’t played Renegade yet, but I still think it will work. The renegade choice gets the job done (destroy all the reapers, that is what you sought out to do anyway), however you do have some collateral damage in the process, killing allies (would renegade shep even be able to make peace with the geth), and EDI.

 

Now that synthesis ending. I guess it's for those who always like to play the middle. I end up mostly paragon on all my attempts to play the middle. I think it's a good compromise though. But it's definitely not the best ending.

 

Plus, just to emphasize again, it's a choice! You don’t get locked to a paragon ending that you don't want, just because you were paragon for the whole game. You can go full paragon, then choose renegade anyway, because you believe controlling the reapers just won’t cut it.

 

Just want to add: Blue explosion, Red explosion, or Green explosion? The paragon ending showed the reapers leaving. The renegade showed they died on earth. Everything is almost the same. Well… that's not really going to change is it? Whether the reapers leave earth, or die in earth, those people will be rejoicing in the street, hence the exact same thing happened (see, it can be explained away!). Green explosion, however, is really just recolored paragon ending. The reapers left the exact same way they did in the paragon ending. This they could have made better, by showing the change in the humans we see in either ending (the soldiers).

 

 

 

About the crucible: It's a Deus Ex Machina alright, but as we found out, it's not prothean, it's a result of all the previous cycles efforts to stop the cycle. Given that, I think it's excusable to just say "it can do that, because it just can!" regarding it's purpose, because after all, it's a result of thousands of years of effort, a mere human could not comprehend it. It's possible, we can't explain it through science right now, but it can happen in the future as there are still so many things we haven’t discovered (that's the thing about sci-fi, sometimes you just have to accept these kinds of things. It's science fiction!).

 

 

 

Now about "all choices that didn’t matter":

I guess people were just expecting to see ALL of the choices that they made matter in the end. The choices DID matter in the game, just not in the ending (and that's perfectly fine!). What happens if you let garrus, tali, mordin, and wrex die? I don’t know, but it's gotta have some sort of effect on how well you'll be able to win the help of the different races. The thing is, I never really expected these choices to drastically affect the ending. You could see that in the previous games, as well as other games that let you make choices. They ultimately never really matter. To do something like that would mean to write two different stories.

Although, it would have been nice to add some scenes at the end representing your choices, like Fallout 1 and 2. I felt these are already implied though, but it would be a lot better to actually say that because of your actions, the galaxy is at peace. Or the Krogan killed the salarians to get revenge. The quarians are now extinct due to your help with the geth (or the other way around).

 

 

Few more thoughts:

1. Above, TL;DR, the ending is just another choice you have to make. Because that's what the game is about, choices. That's what you've been doing the whole time, there is nothing wrong with it.

2. People wanting Shepard to live. It's irrelevant. This is still Bioware's story, that's how it's gotta end. If they made Shepard live, then it's the same thing, we can't argue that Shepard should die.

3. There alternate endings being suggested online. It doesn't mean Bioware didn't do their part in creating a good ending to their story. It just means opinion matter - EDIT: This sentence isn't supposed to be this way, can't remember what i was trying to say . Also, I would like to see alternat endings that DOESN'T USE any of the elements in the official ending. That's just cheating! You could rewrite the ending of a lot of games, and make them better, because you already have a good base to start with.

 

One last thing. The normandy ending wasn't weird to me at all. Joker and Traynor where the ones who left the ship in my game. So it was understandable that they were there. I guess this is just bugged (random crewmate selection).

 

 

Edited March 13, 2012 by elev3n

[Johnny]

@Johnny: I disagree, I felt like it was Improved in Every Way Mass Effect 2, except that I didn't think there were enough actual conversations with crew members/squad mates. And the ending, but I didn't think that was the worst thing every like most people seemed to. Overall I do think it's my favorite Mass Effect. It had the better gameplay of ME2 but a more focused story.

 

The combat was certainly improved, but the writing and plot felt to me really dumb

 

 

 

Everyone refusing to cooperate for no good reason at all makes no sense to me.

 

 

The Cerberus reveal was really fucking stupid. Yes, I get it, they are the bad guys again. Having the reveal be seeing Cerberus troops shoot unarmed captive humans for no reason whatsoever... I wanted to punch whoever came up with that one.

 

And the dreams about the kid? REALLY? Shepard's supposed to have been through hell more times than you can count. So much death. But no, a random kid you don't know is what you have nightmares about? Fuck that.

 

 

Aside from that, as you said there was way too little character interaction. The character writing and interaction was what kept me playing ME2. It's what made me finish Dragon Age 2.

That's it, actually. I like Dragon Age 2 more than I like Mass Effect 3. It's not a better-crafted game, but at least it did SOME neat things. ME3 just feels like a regurgitation of the exact same formula once more.

[TheMightyEthan]

I thought the dialog was very well written. I do agree with your complaints (except the first one), they just don't ruin the game for me. As for the first one

 

 

I think it makes sense that everyone would be worried about protecting themselves and not going out on a limb to help humanity. I find that much more realistic than the more traditional "alien attack unites all nations" sci-fi trope.

 

 

@elev3n:

 

 

For me at least the issue isn't that there's a final choice, because I agree that makes sense and is to be expected. What irks me is that my past choices (even the ones from THIS GAME) have little to no affect on the result of my final choice. THATS what I wanted.

 

[Eleven]

@elev3n:

 

 

For me at least the issue isn't that there's a final choice, because I agree that makes sense and is to be expected. What irks me is that my past choices (even the ones from THIS GAME) have little to no affect on the result of my final choice. THATS what I wanted.

 

 

 

On that, I agree. Kind of. The only thing I would do is add Fallout 1/2 style summary of what happened after you died.

As I mentioned, I guess I just don't give a damn about the choices that much. I would say that choices for ME1 and ME2 mattered in ME3's story, just not the ending. The ME3 choices, well, they're war assets, and up to me to fill in the blanks at endgame.

 

 

On that note, this makes me want to make a Rachni dead, Wrex dead ME1, All dead ME2 run. Is there any guide on how to do the ME2 everyone dies run? I wonder how that would look like in ME3.

[Vargras]

Is it just me, or do people have a personal vendetta against Vanguards in multiplayer? I swear I've had folks purposely NOT revive me, simply because I'm playing Vanguard - I don't mean "hurr durr charge turrets" Vanguard, I mean "Charge across the map to revive an ally and keep everything else busy so my team-mates can get a clear shot" Vanguard. Folks aren't reviving me because I'm a bad player or because I'm being an ass. They aren't reviving me simply because of what class I'm playing.

 

It's... rather silly.

[TheMightyEthan]

Is it possible to have everyone except Shepard die in ME2? I think if your whole squad dies then Shep has to die too.

 

*Edit* - @Vargras: I haven't noticed that. Though I will say that the more someone dies the less inclined I am to try to revive them, and Vanguards tend to die a lot (not because they're bad, but because it's kind of the nature of the beast). Another problem with reviving Vanguards is that often they've charged across the level, so it's just more difficult to get over there to them.

Edited March 13, 2012 by TheMightyEthan

[SixTwoSixFour]

Is it possible to have everyone except Shepard die in ME2? I think if your whole squad dies then Shep has to die too.

 

*Edit* - @Vargras: I haven't noticed that. Though I will say that the more someone dies the less inclined I am to try to revive them, and Vanguards tend to die a lot (not because they're bad, but because it's kind of the nature of the beast). Another problem with reviving Vanguards is that often they've charged across the level, so it's just more difficult to get over there to them.

 

You could kill everyone but one person, one person who can then die in ME3.

[Eleven]

Maybe let Zaeed live. Then kill him on his loyalty mission? Is that even possible? If he's not loyal he might die on the mission though.

[jimmuhpage]

Yes it is, for the most part (spoilers only from ME1 and 2):

Edited March 13, 2012 by jimmuhpage

[Waldorf and Statler]

@elev3n

 

 

This wasn't just another clear choice. In every other game the clear line of distinction between good and bad was apparent throughout the entire game. In the first title you're trying to prove humanity is capable among the other races, and they come and tell you "can you save the council as well or should you exclusively focus on the reapers?" they used words such as "save" to make you feel bad if you didn't.

 

In the second game, they again made it really clear: the collectors did horrible shit, you want to kill them and avenge humanity. Destroy the base to avenge them. Or keep it for the supposed extra help in ME3 [more on this later].

 

The third title had you believe that killing the reapers was the correct way the entire time. Destroy the Reapers. They've killed countless of millions individuals, in no way would keeping them alive be good. Then they come out and give you the three options. Why is destroying the reapers all of a sudden bad, while controlling the Reapers, and basically making every sacrificed life worthless good? The Illusive Man was not correct. Controlling the Reapers sounds bad no matter how you see it. If people knew what you had done, they'd be pissed. No fucking way in hell could that have been a well written paragon ending. Paragon always left you as a good guy.

 

People were not asking for choices to completely affect the game. But come on. Saving the Collector's Base, which supposedly had a shitload of data, only gave me 100 war assets [50 all considering the galactic readiness]? Really Bioware? The ending never even showed you how your choices throughout the game affected your game. In ME2, you were shown how every important ship upgrade, and every loyal crew member did their part at the end. In here, we're thrown in a final decision that is COMPLETELY out of left field, and shows nothing of what we've accomplished. In a game about choices affecting everything, you could have literally half assed it throughout the entire fucking series as long as you worked hard in the third one. The Rachni are worth 400 WA, that's fucking it.

 

The biggest complaints are the logical inconsistencies and the lack of closure. If you had enough war assets, how did your crew show up at the end video? There is no physical way or explanation how. Your game was either bug or your crew clearly did not survive, but everybody else online saw their current crew [or at least one member, like garrus] come out of the Normandy. That makes no sense. No the Normandy leaving makes no sense either. We were in the middle of the biggest fucking war in galactic history. By the time the crucible shot and the explosion happened, there is no way in hell the Normandy could have seen the big colored ball and ran to a mass relay. This is basically assuming the Normandy was already on its way out WAY before the war was over, which is bullshit. Again we have the destroying the reapers, which is THE only option in there that has a 'but' from the catalyst. They make it seem like what you've been striving for the entire game is worthless and that your tough choice is to basically fuck over the entire war. No I'd rather believe somewhat the indoctrination theory and guess this is the catalyst, controller of the reapers, trying to fucking trick you into doing as it wants which is to leave the reapers alive. That's not what you're fighting for and that's not what millions sacrificed themselves for. You do not get to have a Deus Ex ending choice when the rest of the games have been pretty clear cut on what is the good choice throughout the entire game. Also every single one of the choices destroys mass relays. Last time you destroyed a mass relay, an entire fucking galaxy died, and those that survived are the in the future stone age. Really? So everything you've worked for to keep the galaxy united is total bullshit?

 

Then there is no closure whatsoever. We are shown a jungle then boom, the end. If we're invested for 3 games, 100+ hours on these characters and universe closure IS necessary. You don't end star wars with the deathstar being destroyed then credits rolling instantly. That is lazy work by Bioware and we as fans deserve better. They're even so smug as to only respond to those who are praising the game as those going against social norms. I don't take a giant shit in your face instead of shaking your hand, because fuck it I'm such a hipster.

 

Nobody cares about Shepard dying. If this is the way it has to end, with these choices, then fuck it. AT THE VERY LEAST give is closure with the characters. No matter what we've fucked over everybody with the crucible. It doesn't matter how hard you work because there is no escaping this future. Bioware has been lazy with their development. They took shortcuts everywhere, from lazy body models to straight up 'stealing' pictures and photoshops online. Once you start cutting so many corners in so many aspects, other aspects will follow. and this writing is the final nail in the coffin. None of the original writers of ME1 are still in this besides a couple of the little guys who helped out in ME1.

 

Anybody who truly liked the ending is basically white knighting. How can you tell me that the way to end a trilogy is with a deus ex ending followed by no closure? No, you want to believe Bioware is this genius who did it all on purpose. But no they're just lazy fucks always looking for excuses. They created my favorite trilogy up until the last 20 minutes. Only way they could ever make up for it is if they admit they fucked up, and they havent even admitted how theyve fucked up with all those shortcuts they blatantly did. At least step off the high horse and admit you didnt have the time instead of defending and turning your head to the other side.

 

[TheMightyEthan]

Then there is no closure whatsoever. We are shown a jungle then boom, the end. If we're invested for 3 games, 100+ hours on these characters and universe closure IS necessary. You don't end star wars with the deathstar being destroyed then credits rolling instantly. That is lazy work by Bioware and we as fans deserve better.

 

This, so much this.

 

*Edit* - Only quoted part of his comment, not the whole thing.

Edited March 13, 2012 by TheMightyEthan

[deanb]

 

hehe

 

Oh lord

http://gamerant.com/mass-effect-3-different-every-player-dyce-124489/

. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.

[TheMightyEthan]

There are, what, 17 endings? With really only 3 major ones (minor variations on the 3 make up the others). And really almost no variation between those 3 anyway...

[jimmuhpage]

@WaS

Yeah, even though the ending doesn't miff me, I'm actually starting to believe the indoctrination conspiracy might have some merits. BioWare have set a precedent for not commenting on fan rage, but they've never been cryptic about it. Things on Twitter like, "Hang in there..." and "if you knew what I know..." Then there's the Eurogamer article where Gamble even admits "it's going to make some people angry."

 

If BioWare actually planned to enrage fans to "emulate being indoctrinated" and then release free DLC that "fixes" the ending by showing Shepard was indeed indoctrinated, I'd have to recognize the size of their quad. Not necessarily for how they went about it, but the fact that they deceived their customers as part of the fiction. Perhaps From Ashes as day 1 paid DLC was to convince EA to give free DLC later down the road?

 

Meh, too many variables. I'm letting my imagination get the better of me. Food for thought, though.

 

 

[deanb]

btw said endings are referred to as:

 

 

Red, Green n Blue within the files (And if you grab http://www.radgametools.com/bnkdown.htm you can watch them all yourself and see that not much changes beyond the colours. It's a handy program to have for other things too.)

By my count there's 7 endings. 6 in the good/bad of the three colours, then with the additional ending if your Shepard is alive.

[Vargras]

Looks like the multiplayer store is running a deal right now (and I'm assuming it'll do such things in the future as well). For something like 145 more hours, you can buy an Equipment Pack for 20,000 credits. Basically gets you 5 of each consumable, and an extra item. Very good way to get consumables.

[Hot Heart]

Oh, man...

 

Guess I should've told Kelly to change her identity.

 

Told my friend what happened and his response was "Who?" When I reminded him, he just told me "Oh, yeah, she died in ME2. Never mind."

 

[CorgiShinobi]

So turns out my decision with the surrogate rachni queen...

 

 

is going to kick me in the butt. I've read the message where the rachni have become disorganized, but it looks like eventually I'm going to take a 100 point hit to my engineers because the queen turns on me.

 

 

I sincerely hope that

 

100 points

 

isn't going to come back and bite me. My krogan forces became strong after the mission though, which is probably because I had Grunt for the krogan. But that amount...

[Waldorf and Statler]

If Bioware is actually trolling us and release a DLC ending where the theory is true, I won't only applaud their ingenuity but all is forgiven. That would take balls.