Mass Effect

[TheMightyEthan]

I'm kinda with Hot Heart. I'll agree the wording wasn't very good, it did throw me off for a second, but given the way the entire rest of the series has worked I knew that the paragon/renegade option would be the one to let you get the best of both worlds. You NEVER get that kind of outcome with just a regular dialogue choice throughout the whole series, it has to be a paragon/renegade choice.

[Johnny]

Which is also one of the most retarded design decisions in the series. I miss the time where the way NPCs would react to different kinds of arguments was based on what type of character they were, not whether you had enough paragon points -.-''

[TheMightyEthan]

Well paragon/renegade is the Mass Effect equivalent of a persuade skill, which has been a staple of RPGs since forever.

[Eleven]

A little late but... As you know, I liked the ending. But I think it can be improved. I think they should

 

 

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Everything's the same, until Shepard goes up that elevator made of light. His head is down, somebody, or something is approaching him but he can't see it yet. By the way, the camera is doing a closed up on Shepard's face, he's in a lot of pain, and stressed out. Then the camera cuts to:

 

The catalyst. Of course, the catalyst is here, we already know it. But it's not the kid, no. Something's different. It's Harbinger!

 

"WAKE UP!" says Harbinger, in his booming voice.

 

Shepard doesn't even need to look up. "Harbinger...", he whispers.

 

"You have done well, Shepard." Harbinger says, acknowledging all of Shepard's accomplishments. He goes on to enumerate the various things Shepard has done, since Mass Effect 1. So we see, for example, the Geth and the Quarians, crushing each other, or helping each other rebuild. As he recaps this, he comments on how he was right all along, or how annoyed he is at what you've done.

 

Shepard looks up, sees where he is, and cuts him off. "Where am I? What is this place?"

 

Harbinger then talks about the Citadel, the Crucible, and the Catalyst. Maybe he mentions dark energy, maybe not, who knows. He gives a pretty good explanation, and then presents you with 3 choices. The same choices the Catalyst gave you on the original ending.

 

Shepard asks "Why are you telling me this?". He can't believe after all this, Harbinger would just give up and let Shepard basically end the cycle.

 

Harbinger answers. "You cannot stop us, Shepard. You have failed."

 

As Shepard begins to answer back, Harbinger's laser glows:

 

"This hurts you. Seriously."

 

Shepard dodges. Harbinger blasts part of the floor and Shepard tumbles.

 

"Ugh..." Shepard grunts, struggling to get his balance back.

 

Harbinger's laser glows again. Anderson, suddenly, is alive. Just for 1 sec, and shoots Harbinger, giving enough time for Shepard to get back on his feet.

 

Harbinger changes targets, and kills Anderson, but not before Anderson says

 

"Give him hell... Commander..."

 

And then he's dead.

 

Harbinger looks back at Shepard. He mocks you. "And now you stand alone, Shepard."

 

You now have control. There's a prompt to press L1, as you press it:

 

Paradigm Shift! You choose "Sentinel" Paradigm. And quickly access Tech Armor.

 

Harbinger blasts you for 24 damage. It should have been 999 but you're good since you got to Sentinel in time.

 

Harbinger charges laser. You quickly change t-

 

 

Oh...

 

Edited March 22, 2012 by elev3n

[TheMightyEthan]

What are you referencing with that? Spoiler tag the answer if necessary.

[Eleven]

  On 3/22/2012 at 9:20 AM, Hot Heart said:

Also, FFS, people. It's not a Deus Ex Machina if it's been established at some point before the end. From what I can gather it was set in motion in ME1. I know you guys like using that term though, so carry on...

 

I don't have an issue with the Deus Ex Machina, although I do think it was a Deus Ex Machina (I actually even said it aloud when I heard it first mentioned in the game! - then continue playing).

 

I'm curious how, though. From ME1?

 

  On 3/22/2012 at 1:03 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

What are you referencing with that? Spoiler tag the answer if necessary.

 

Was that a question to me?

 

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Nothing. Just FF-XIII battle system. I was thinking of how Harbinger boss fight would be, then it hit me. It's perfect!

Sorry to leave the story hanging like that. No time to waste. Typing up an email to Bioware to suggest this. I want my name on the credits.

 

[deanb]

  On 3/22/2012 at 1:15 PM, elev3n said:

  On 3/22/2012 at 9:20 AM, Hot Heart said:

Also, FFS, people. It's not a Deus Ex Machina if it's been established at some point before the end. From what I can gather it was set in motion in ME1. I know you guys like using that term though, so carry on...

I don't have an issue with the Deus Ex Machina, although I do think it was a Deus Ex Machina (I actually even said it aloud when I heard it first mentioned in the game! - then continue playing).

 

I'm curious how, though. From ME1?

Yeah I'm curious on the establishing link back to ME1. The only signs in ME3 of the ending are

 

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The fact the kid is at the start and in your dreams, but not really a foreboding. And on Thessia when it's mentioned one of the Asari feels that there's someone behind the scenes.

 

I'll agree the Crucible isn't much of a deus ex machina, certainly coincidentally handy, but more of a macguffin than anything else. I think folks here are mentioned the phrase becuase the ending bears a similarity to both the outcomes of Deus Ex(control the Illuminati, merge with the AI, wipe out all electronics) , and the lame "push a button" ending of DXHR

 

[Waldorf and Statler]

lol Dean might wanna check that spoiler tag again

[Maritan]

[TheMightyEthan]

I think that it's deus ex machina if you look at the series as a whole, but agree that within ME3 alone it's more of a McGuffin.

[Waldorf and Statler]

I personally see it more of a Macgyver

[Vargras]

  On 3/22/2012 at 2:51 PM, Waldorf And Statler said:

I personally see it more of a Macgyver

 

 

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Took an awful lot of paperclips to build the Crucible, buddy.

 

An awful lot.

 

Edited March 22, 2012 by Vargras

[TheMightyEthan]

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Considering the random-ass shit my shep found all across the galaxy that was incorporated into the design of the crucible, calling it a MacGyver isn't far off.

[Thursday Next]

I see it as a McRib.

[deanb]

  On 3/22/2012 at 3:38 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

 

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Considering the random-ass shit my shep found all across the galaxy that was incorporated into the design of the crucible, calling it a MacGyver isn't far off.

 

Hah. I never quite got that.

 

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There's a device, a device you've admitted to at best knowing it's a weapon and maybe prothean designed, but other than that don't know how it works. But your'e going to incorporate experimental FTL drives, fuel cells and materials? I'm amazed it didn't just blow up as they brought it through the Mass Relay.

 

[TheMightyEthan]

  On 3/22/2012 at 3:49 PM, Deanb said:

  On 3/22/2012 at 3:38 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Considering the random-ass shit my shep found all across the galaxy that was incorporated into the design of the crucible, calling it a MacGyver isn't far off.

 

Hah. I never quite got that.

 

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There's a device, a device you've admitted to at best knowing it's a weapon and maybe prothean designed, but other than that don't know how it works. But your'e going to incorporate experimental FTL drives, fuel cells and materials? I'm amazed it didn't just blow up as they brought it through the Mass Relay.

 

 

lmao! Can you imagine

 

 

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how hilarious and rage-inducing it would be if everything you found it gave you option of whether to incorporate it into the crucible or not, and certain things, if incorporated, would just make it fail catastrophically when you tried to use it, thus dooming the galaxy?

 

[Waldorf and Statler]

I find myself really enjoying the "Demand a Better Ending for Mass Effect 3" facebook community.

 

We're all like minded people and honestly we're having fun with this

 

which is more that can be said about the ending

 

WHO SAID THAT?!

[Luftwaffles]

Just played the second level from the demo.

 

 

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So happy they removed Wrex's "I'm going to make you an honory Krogan" line. That was cringeworthy in the demo.

 

[Hot Heart]

  On 3/22/2012 at 5:35 PM, Sporkwaffles said:

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So happy they removed Wrex's "I'm going to make you an honory Krogan" line. That was cringeworthy in the demo.

 

 

Hmm, he still said that for me...at one point.

 

 

Well, because I've not finished the game yet, from what I know, I am only guessing that...

 

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Shepard is the Catalyst via the Prothean beacon in ME1. And also the reason why The Illusive Man wanted him alive and not altered in any way. Also, you know, the Protheans were always central to the fight against the Reapers. All this disqualifies any Deus Ex Machina label. McGuffin? Maybe, but it feels too ingrained in everything to be that.

 

 

Although, now I don't want to know whether I'm right or wrong.

 

  On 3/22/2012 at 12:01 PM, Deanb said:

 

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That is what it means though.

  Quote

ral·ly/ˈralē/

Verb:

(of troops) Come together again in order to continue fighting after a defeat or dispersion.

 

What he actually calls for is a ceasefire.

 

 

In this case, you'd have to look at the context. As in, what Shepard just said. And the fact it's a Paragon choice. It's almost the very opposite of ambiguous.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Hot Heart

[TheMightyEthan]

  On 3/22/2012 at 6:04 PM, Hot Heart said:

  On 3/22/2012 at 5:35 PM, Sporkwaffles said:

  Reveal hidden contents

So happy they removed Wrex's "I'm going to make you an honory Krogan" line. That was cringeworthy in the demo.

 

Hmm, he still said that for me...at one point.

 

He did for my second playthrough, but not my first. I was excited that he hadn't said it in my first, but then was pissed when he did in my second. I think if you're running through the area too fast it gets cut off by other dialog, that's why he doesn't always say it.

 

 

  On 3/22/2012 at 6:04 PM, Hot Heart said:

Well, because I've not finished the game yet, from what I know, I am only guessing that...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Shepard is the Catalyst via the Prothean beacon in ME1. And also the reason why The Illusive Man wanted him alive and not altered in any way. Also, you know, the Protheans were always central to the fight against the Reapers. All this disqualifies any Deus Ex Machina label. McGuffin? Maybe, but it feels too ingrained in everything to be that.

 

 

Although, now I don't want to know whether I'm right or wrong.

 

We weren't talking about the catalyst being the DEM (or at least I wasn't), we were talking about the prothean device itself, or at least the plans for it.

 

Also, DO NOT READ THIS UNTIL YOU'VE BEAT THE GAME:

 

 

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Your explanation for the Catalyst is WAY better than the real one.

 

[deanb]

  On 3/22/2012 at 6:17 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

Also, DO NOT READ THIS UNTIL YOU'VE BEAT THE GAME:

 

 

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Your explanation for the Catalyst is WAY better than the real one.

 

 

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That makes him space-jesus, which is as bad as the current space-magic. Generations of folks create a device that can only be activated by one special pre-destined guy. There is of course not a cats chance in hell this guy might accidentally die before he can become the catalyst.

 

It does somewhat work within the story, but so does it being the Citadel. A device built by the reapers, meaning within each cycle they're not going to destroy it but repair and polish it up. So it's pretty safe until the crucible can be finally built and used. ME1 already showed it can be subverted and sabotaged too.

 

 

  On 3/22/2012 at 6:04 PM, Hot Heart said:

  On 3/22/2012 at 12:01 PM, Deanb said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

That is what it means though.

  Quote

ral·ly/ˈralē/

Verb:

(of troops) Come together again in order to continue fighting after a defeat or dispersion.

What he actually calls for is a ceasefire.

 

In this case, you'd have to look at the context. As in, what Shepard just said. And the fact it's a Paragon choice. It's almost the very opposite of ambiguous.

 

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The context is in responding to a race that's quite up for killing as many geth as they can at all costs, so it being "rally the troops for one last shot at them" is pretty much what's expected. If it was unambiguous he'd have rallied them instead of getting them to stand down and ceasefire. Being paragon/renegade has never really made the choices unambiguously clear. I think I posted when a renegade option saved someone's life rather than let him die. This then resulted in the death of the Hanaar.

 

[Vargras]

  On 3/22/2012 at 5:35 PM, Sporkwaffles said:

Just played the second level from the demo.

 

 

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So happy they removed Wrex's "I'm going to make you an honory Krogan" line. That was cringeworthy in the demo.

 

 

 

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As the others said, he still says it. If you're moving too fast through the area, though, it gets cut off.

 

[Hot Heart]

  On 3/22/2012 at 6:24 PM, Deanb said:

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The context is in responding to a race that's quite up for killing as many geth as they can at all costs, so it being "rally the troops for one last shot at them" is pretty much what's expected. If it was unambiguous he'd have rallied them instead of getting them to stand down and ceasefire. Being paragon/renegade has never really made the choices unambiguously clear. I think I posted when a renegade option saved someone's life rather than let him die. This then resulted in the death of the Hanaar.

 

 

 

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The conversation is as follows.

 

Tali: Our fleet is already attacking! Uploading the code would destroy us! Shepard, you can't choose the geth over my people!

Legion: Do you remember the question that caused the creators to attack us, Tali'Zorah? "Does this unit have a soul?"

Then you get a choice between 1. Upload the code. and 2. We're letting the geth die.

 

If you choose 1. then the conversation goes...

Shepard: Upload the code to the geth. Tali, call off the fleet if you can.

*Legion starts uploading*

Tali: (On comms) This is Admiral Tali'Zorah. All units, break off your attack!

Admiral Gerrel: (On comms) Belay that order! Continue the attack!

*Legion continuing upload*

Tali: I beg you, do not do this. Please.

Legion: We regret the deaths of the creators, but we see no alternative.

Then you get those four options. Paragon = Rally the fleet, Renegade = Warn the fleet and then [Allow the upload] or [stop Legion].

 

Three of those options are plain as day. Did you think 'rally the fleet' meant Shepard would do an about-turn on the line about calling off the fleet? "Oh, well, I'll encourage the Quarians to fight back a bit harder and then we'll see who's left from both sides afterwards. Surely, they'll help the war effort."

 

 

Sorry, if I sound like I'm having a go but it just seems unreasonable in this instance. Sure, it could probably have done with better wording and I can understand if you were annoyed about the gameplay section before but I feel it's coloured your view of that bit.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Hot Heart

[TheMightyEthan]

  On 3/22/2012 at 6:24 PM, Deanb said:

  On 3/22/2012 at 6:17 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

Also, DO NOT READ THIS UNTIL YOU'VE BEAT THE GAME:

 

 

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Your explanation for the Catalyst is WAY better than the real one.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

That makes him space-jesus, which is as bad as the current space-magic. Generations of folks create a device that can only be activated by one special pre-destined guy. There is of course not a cats chance in hell this guy might accidentally die before he can become the catalyst.

 

It does somewhat work within the story, but so does it being the Citadel. A device built by the reapers, meaning within each cycle they're not going to destroy it but repair and polish it up. So it's pretty safe until the crucible can be finally built and used. ME1 already showed it can be subverted and sabotaged too.

 

 

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Oh no, I think the catalyst being the citdel works fine, what I meant is that space-jesus would be better than hologram kid from out of nowhere. He says he's the catalyst, not the Citadel.

 

[Vargras]

  On 3/22/2012 at 6:57 PM, TheMightyEthan said:

 

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Oh no, I think the catalyst being the citdel works fine, what I meant is that space-jesus would be better than hologram kid from out of nowhere. He says he's the catalyst, not the Citadel.

 

 

 

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Space Jesus? Like this guy?

 

I dunno, polishing a bowling ball doesn't seem like a very good way to stop the Reapers.