Mass Effect

[Cyber Rat]

I wish I could give the same post more than one rep, Agamemnon.

 

But we can promote it. Nice posts you two, saved me some typing and looking up all the sidequests I did in ME1 and ME2...

[TheMightyEthan]

The Weather Underground is classified as a domestic terrorist organization in the US.

lmao, at first I thought you were talking about this website and I was like "what the hell?"

 

I had never heard of the other Weather Underground.

[HotChops]

He's got a point there. Cerberus is far from a terrorist organization. They're much more like space Nazis. Which is fine, because that's worse than being a terrorist I would say.

 

okay...um, not to come off as argumentative, but I don't think that's true either.

 

Cerberus occasionally works with aliens. The Nazis never and would never share resources with non-Aryan races. I still believe Nazi Germany would have turned on the Japanese as soon as the Allies were defeated.

 

Likewise, Nazi Germany was an aggressive military force that attacked everyone around them. Cerberus's stance is simply that human safety and stature should not be a secondary priority to appeasing other species.

 

Granted, the desire for security easily transitions into a first-blood attack policy. Likewise, a species-partisan stance easily turns into a species superiority stance, which easily leads to genocide.

 

Also like (and unlike) the Nazis, Cerberus conducts sick experiments on people.

 

However, like the terrorist label, I don't think it's fair to call them space Nazis. Heck, the Nazis were wholly devoted to Hitler. Disagreeing with Hitler was typically a death sentence. Jacob openly defies and disagrees with the Illusive Man and he doesn't even lose his job.

 

Look, I don't disagree that Cerberus is a bad group with an immoral leader. I just feel obligated to jump in when people throw around labels like "terrorist" and "Nazi" because in some cases, it minimizes how bad real terrorists and Nazis are.

 

I totally concede that Cerberus pushes itself awfully close to those groups. If I were living in the ME world, I sure as hell wouldn't support them. I don't even hook up with Ashley because I think she's bigoted.

Let's take a look at Cerberus's activities.

 

In ME1:

 

They set Thresher Maws loose on civilians and soldiers just to see what the reaction would be.

 

They use the Geth spikes on civilians just to see what the reaction would be.

 

They set Rachni loose on civilians just to see what the reaction would be.

 

They try to use a Thorian on a civilian population just to see what the reaction would be.

 

They kill an Alliance admiral when he gets too close to exposing their operation.

 

 

In ME2:

 

They strap an idiot-savant into a nightmare-fuel torture chair just to see what his reaction would be.

 

They kidnap children and perform psychoanalytical and torture experiments just to see what biotic children would do.

 

They purposely let slip where Commander Shepard is supposed to be going just to see what the Collector response would be (in the process getting half [if not all] of Horizon's colonials abducted).

 

 

From the Shadow Broker's dossier:

 

They infiltrate news media organizations (10 to 1 says Khalisah al-Jilani is a Cerberus operative).

 

They kill off the Salarian corner market on narcotics trade on Trident just so they could take over their business.

 

They capture Asaris to test their biotic powers.

 

They kill the Pope to replace him with one that is more militaristic and centered toward humanity.

 

They assassinate an Alliance politician just to forward another one in their pocket. They assassinate some more Alliance politicians just to forward their gains to ensure new laws are passed to allow them to create new shell corporations.

 

They "neuter" a Matriarch's biotic powers because she was a political opponent.

 

 

So really, we can stop pretending that they're baby Jesus or something. They literally are the new space Nazi party in Mass Effect. Everything they do--whether it is murder, extort, torture, harass, blackmail, or embezzle--is done for the sole purpose of "ensuring humanity stays on top." How no one sees the "master race" tones on this one I've no clue. It sort of reminds me of the people who defend Loghain from Dragon Age. Both are complete monsters.

 

Give me a break. I repeatedly condemned their actions as illegal and immoral. I never "pretended they were baby jesus."

 

Nonetheless, nice post. :bravo:

 

I'm replaying those parts of ME and re-reading Ascension right now. I'd like to believe that if Cerberus was that bad, I would have felt the same way. So either I missed a few things, or we have different interpretations of their actions.

[TheMightyEthan]

So really, we can stop pretending that they're baby Jesus or something. They literally are the new space Nazi party in Mass Effect. Everything they do--whether it is murder, extort, torture, harass, blackmail, or embezzle--is done for the sole purpose of "ensuring humanity stays on top." How no one sees the "master race" tones on this one I've no clue. It sort of reminds me of the people who defend Loghain from Dragon Age. Both are complete monsters.

Saying "they're not terrorists" is not defending them. I haven't seen anyone defending Cerberus, just discussion of whether or not the word "terrorist" can be accurately applied to them.

[AgamemnonV2]

Give me a break. I repeatedly condemned their actions as illegal and immoral. I never "pretended they were baby jesus."

 

Nonetheless, nice post. :bravo:

 

I'm replaying those parts of ME and re-reading Ascension right now. I'd like to believe that if Cerberus was that bad, I would have felt the same way. So either I missed a few things, or we have different interpretations of their actions.

Fair enough.

 

I think the discrepancy comes from how well Cerberus hides their goals. Even bringing back Shepard was about forwarding humanity, etc. Miranda even tells you flat-out that she fought with TIM to put a chip implant in your brain so they could control you but she was stone-walled on that. But yeah, I was getting the whole "master race" vibe right after Freedom's Progress, where Miranda is all like, "Oh, we should abduct this Quarian because he might have something more useful than what we already have seen." And then if you do just that he's all the worse on the Flotilla.

 

Besides, I knew Cerberus was bad news the moment TIM blinked. Eye implants are a precursor to the big bad wolf in Mass Effect.

 

Saying "they're not terrorists" is not defending them. I haven't seen anyone defending Cerberus, just discussion of whether or not the word "terrorist" can be accurately applied to them.

Personally I think they are labeled as terrorists as to give the universe (and us, the audience) an idea of how the Alliance and the Council view them. When we think of terrorists (by our modern standards) we think of some rag-tag group of untrained people hiding out in caves making explosives out of car batteries.

 

As I and Badmin pointed out, they're so much more than that. They're an unbelievably well-funded organization that stretches across the galaxy. They have numerous fronts that seem more friendly in design (like Terra Firma). They're past the terrorist classification. If the aliens knew how well-founded Cerberus is they probably would be much more wary to humanity. I wonder if even it's Cerberus operatives that are working within the system to make sure that they stay labeled as terrorists rather than what they really are--space Nazis.

 

 

I wish I could give the same post more than one rep, Agamemnon.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Cerberus is basically the Aryan Nation or Weather Underground for humanity in Mass Effect.

Thanks. Bioware has been really skating on the dark edge of things lately and I haven't really been a fan of that. If we ever have a discussion about why Loghain is a monster in Dragon Age, I have another list of all the atrocities he commits as well to label him as a selfish opportunist.

 

I'm betting that Mass Effect 3 is going to have a "Dragon Age" ending which throws at you all the epilogue dialogue of your choices in the three games. I'm also betting that if you helped Cerberus significantly that the aliens figure it out after the Reaper threat is dealt with and humanity goes to war with everyone else. Bioware is really good about making you feel like total crap about the choices you make in their games.

Edited April 4, 2011 by AgamemnonV2

[HotChops]

Brace yourselves, I'm back.

 

I thought about it for a few hours before going to bed last night, and I thought about it for a couple more hours this morning. I'm not yet convinced that Cerberus is a full-fledged terrorist group, or space Nazis.

 

To Cyber Rat and Badmin, last time I checked, your assertion was that Cerberus was a terrorist group. That is not what Agamemnon is saying. Agamemnon is saying that they're space Nazis. And all of us agree that Cerberus are bad guys.

 

Ironically enough, I'm more inclined to believe that Cerberus is a terrorist group than a group of human supremacists (ie, "space Nazis"... btw, a game where you fight actual space Nazis would be pretty cool.)

 

With respect to the question of whether or not Cerberus are terrorists, I think it's mostly a matter of semantics.

 

The question of whether or not they're Nazis means asking if the members of Cerberus are simply interested in maintaining human strength and independence, or if they're interested in subjugating and/or wiping out the other species of the galaxy. Are they the same thing? Does one lead to the other? When we compare them to the Nazis, are we comparing them to the Nazi party during its early years, or the years following their invasion of Europe?

 

I'm not disregarding anyone's opinion here. I'm just reminding you guys that I'm not completely convinced one way or the other yet. Obviously, Agememnon put a decent amount of work into his examples, but to be certain I have to go back to the primary sources and re-evaluate each instance on a case-by-case, word-by-word example. (Obviously, I have no life )

 

Because -- just for example -- I think you have truly racist attitudes by some people who aren't even within Cerberus. For example Ashley Williams. I was replaying the early part of ME1 last night, and when you talk to her on the Citadel, she says: "I can't tell the aliens from the animals." And she works for the Alliance. Contrast that with Jacob, who never says anything like that.

 

Arguably, this may be a matter of individuals. Miranda is obviously a much more sinister character than Jacob, but both are high-ranking Cerberus officers. Likewise, some characters change. Navigator Presley made some pretty xenophobic remarks in the first game, but when you recover his personal log in the Normandy wreckage, we see that he comes to regret his views.

 

So please don't take this as me ignoring or just crapping on your opinions, because it's just the opposite. I'm saying that you guys have given me a lot to think about while I replay and re-read this stuff.

[AgamemnonV2]

Individuals are just that: individuals. Just as there are Cerberus operatives who don't tote the "exterminate all aliens" motto, not everyone in the Third Reich was a Nazi. In fact, most of the military commanders who had been around before Hitler's rise to power rather frowned on the orders they were given and some flat-out didn't carry them at all. Obviously, in this case, you don't need to align your beliefs with TIM to be in Cerberus, neither did the soldiers of the Wehrmacht align their beliefs with Hitler either.

 

As for a Nazis-in-space game, see Killzone 3. Well, that's actually more of a World-War-II-in-space game.

 

[deanb]

http://www.vg247.com/2011/04/07/mass-effect-anime-film-to-release-in-2012/

 

There's an Anime Mass Effect movie due next year.

[HotChops]

I'm always glad to get more Mass Effect. They really are starting to branch Mass Effect out. I hope all these different tie-ins don't dilute the quality of the franchise.

 

Do we have any anime experts who can tell us what to expect from that production company?

[Hot Heart]

Reapers attack Earth while Shepard has his back turned!

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/04/07/may2011_2d00_cover_2d00_reveled_2d00_me3_2d00_789055.aspx

[AgamemnonV2]

So a potential blockbuster title is being churned out into a niche demographic that will never see widespread recognition.

 

Frankly I'm a bit surprised by their decision. There's a big sci-fi movie craze going on (ever since the success of Avatar) and if there was a time for them to ride that wave with Mass Effect it would be now.

[Thursday Next]

I still think the Helghan or is it Helghast? Are more Soviet than Nazi. From the punishing nature of their home to their Cyrillic looking text.

 

I could stand to see a proper Mass Effect movie, but I'd rather something set in the ME universe than along the ME story arc. If you catch my drift.

[deanb]

Halo Legends anyone?

[Cyber Rat]

Truth be told, the ME universe is as generic as sci-fi settings go... Not sure how it would work out in a medium other than video games (I didn't really like the comics).

[HotChops]

So a potential blockbuster title is being churned out into a niche demographic that will never see widespread recognition.

 

Frankly I'm a bit surprised by their decision. There's a big sci-fi movie craze going on (ever since the success of Avatar) and if there was a time for them to ride that wave with Mass Effect it would be now.

 

are you referring to the anime or the Game Informer cover that -- like Mass Effect 2's box art -- depicts an angry, gun-wielding Shepard with a war-torn background?

 

You guys understand that the live action film is still being made, right? ... Or at least I thought it was.

[TheMightyEthan]

He was referring to the anime.

 

I didn't even know there was ever a live-action one being made.

[HotChops]

He was referring to the anime.

 

I didn't even know there was ever a live-action one being made.

 

I'm surprised you missed that announcement. It was made official in May of 2010.

 

“I am very pleased this morning to announce that there will be a Mass Effect movie made by the fine folks at Legendary Pictures! I know there has been a lot of speculation amongst our fans ever since Mass Effect 1 came out as to whether or not there would be a movie' date=' who should star in it, who would direct, would there be a Wrex sized bucket of popcorn, etc and I can now reveal that, yes, there will be a movie (popcorn deal is still unconfirmed).

 

Legendary Pictures, the studio behind great films such as The Dark Knight, Watchmen, The Hangover and 300 have picked up the rights to make Mass Effect. Legendary Pictures will produce with Thomas Tull, Jon Jashni along with Avi Arad (who has been behind great films like Iron Man, X-Men and Spider-Man). From BioWare Ray Muzyka, Greg Zeschuck and Casey Hudson will serve as executive producers.

 

'At BioWare, we’ve always thought of Mass Effect as having the depth, emotion and plot twists perfectly suited for an adaptation to a motion picture,' said Casey Hudson, executive producer of the Mass Effect series. 'With Avi Arad and Legendary attached, we believe that the Mass Effect movie will be an extraordinary entertainment event that realizes our vision for the franchise and thrills fans.'” [/quote']

 

I don't recall when/where it was said, but I thought I also recalled Casey Hudson awknowledging the "curse" that accompanies game-to-film adaptations and that he wouldn't allow the game to be made into a movie unless he was sure it was going to be done right.

 

Nonetheless, I remain fearful for how it will turn out. On the flipside though, Mass Effect is very different from most games in that the universe was created before the game. Unlike most game to film adaptations there's no need to fill in gaps or create characters, technology and locations.

 

Back to the anime though, I'm not too surprised by it. You guys may recall seeing tiny snippets of Mass Effect anime shown on monitors in ME2.

[AgamemnonV2]

He was referring to the anime.

 

I didn't even know there was ever a live-action one being made.

 

I'm surprised you missed that announcement. It was made official in May of 2010.

 

“I am very pleased this morning to announce that there will be a Mass Effect movie made by the fine folks at Legendary Pictures! I know there has been a lot of speculation amongst our fans ever since Mass Effect 1 came out as to whether or not there would be a movie' date=' who should star in it, who would direct, would there be a Wrex sized bucket of popcorn, etc and I can now reveal that, yes, there will be a movie (popcorn deal is still unconfirmed).

 

Legendary Pictures, the studio behind great films such as The Dark Knight, Watchmen, The Hangover and 300 have picked up the rights to make Mass Effect. Legendary Pictures will produce with Thomas Tull, Jon Jashni along with Avi Arad (who has been behind great films like Iron Man, X-Men and Spider-Man). From BioWare Ray Muzyka, Greg Zeschuck and Casey Hudson will serve as executive producers.

 

'At BioWare, we’ve always thought of Mass Effect as having the depth, emotion and plot twists perfectly suited for an adaptation to a motion picture,' said Casey Hudson, executive producer of the Mass Effect series. 'With Avi Arad and Legendary attached, we believe that the Mass Effect movie will be an extraordinary entertainment event that realizes our vision for the franchise and thrills fans.'” [/quote']

 

I don't recall when/where it was said, but I thought I also recalled Casey Hudson awknowledging the "curse" that accompanies game-to-film adaptations and that he wouldn't allow the game to be made into a movie unless he was sure it was going to be done right.

Acquiring the rights is definitely not the same thing as "we're making it now." A lot of popular games have had the rights acquired for live-action movie production but next to nil are actually in production. Remember the Halo movie fiasco? So no, the live-action Mass Effect movie is not in production. It's in limbo currently, not doing anything.

 

Fan wikis, like usual, blow things out of proportion.

[HotChops]

I never implied that anymore was being done besides the preliminary production work, but as far as I'm concerned, that's the first step in "making a movie." I simply use that fan wiki as a helpful source guide. The news of a Mass Effect film was aggregated across every major gaming blog and news site when it was announced.

 

The Mass Effect franchise is continuing to grow and be commercially successful. There's no particular reason beyond the usual skepticism about game-to-movie adaptations to lead us to conclude that the film won't be made.

 

And let's try not to compare it to Halo, because then you'll force me to say very negative things about Halo. And my mommy taught me that if you can't say something nice about Halo, then don't say anything at all .... especially when there are so many diehard Halo nuts in the world.

Edited April 7, 2011 by HotChops

[AgamemnonV2]

I'm just saying that there's going to be an animoo on Mass Effect before there's the actual blockbuster live-action title. Time is of the essence a mind-controlling maniac once said and there's still no mention of a written script for it. Then filming alone would take at least a year or two. Point is that we're probably not going to see a Mass Effect movie, at the earliest, until 2014, all because someone is sitting on their thumbs wondering if this will turn out like the Doom movie.

[Pirandello]

animoo

How odd, that's what I always call it. Animoo and mango (manga, FYI). Two of my most favorite things.

[AgamemnonV2]

animoo

How odd, that's what I always call it. Animoo and mango (manga, FYI). Two of my most favorite things.

[Pirandello]

News from PCG via GameInformer:

 

Link: Mass Effect 3 info blowout

 

Mod: mild to moderate ME3 spoilers follow.

 

All the details come from Game Informer’s first look at the game. Mass Effect 3 will start with Shepard on Earth, facing trial for the events that occur in The Arrival DLC for Mass Effect 2. The Reapers strike halfway through the trial, and the prologue covers Shepard’s battle to reach the Normandy and escape the planet.

 

After that, it’s a matter of getting another crew together to take on the Reaper menace and save Earth. A few old friends will be returning as squad mates, including Liara, Ashley/Kaiden and, if he’s alive, Garrus.

 

Providing they survived the previous games, Wrex, Mordin, Legion, and Anderson will be in Mass Effect 3, though not as members of your team. The Illusive Man will also return. Cerberus have turned against you again in the third game, and will be hunting you across the galaxy as you try to stop the Reaper invasion.

 

Bioware say they’ve beefed up the levelling mechanics to offer a greater choice of abilities. Skill trees will be larger, and powers can be evolved several times.

 

There have been some tweaks to the weapons systems, too. All characters can use any weapon, but different classes will have a limited number of weapons slots. Only the soldier class will be able to carry all of them at once. Weapon mods will let you add scopes and different barrels to your weapons, changing the look and effectiveness of each gun.

 

Mass Effect 3 will have a number of alternative endings. Like Mass Effect 2, the ending you get will depend heavily on the team members you recruit

 

Nice to know that even if you were a dick and didn't destroy the Collector base, Cerberus still turns against you. Gives me less qualms about killing them.

 

Edited April 8, 2011 by TheMightyEthan
Spoiler tags

[Mercurial]

What assholes.

[Cyber Rat]

Seriously? We are putting together a team AGAIN?! Like, SERIOUSLY?!