deanb Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 So let me first set the tone on my opinion: Fuck Nintendo. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/32855/Nintendos_FilsAime_LowPriced_Mobile_Games_Among_Biggest_Risks_To_Industry.php Now it's not a black and white issue. Some cheap games are shitty, and some games do require the high budgets and are better for it. Cheap games are not bad for the industry, the cheap indie titles are bad for the CEO's end of year bonus, because he can no longer convince people that their games are worth £30 a pop. Back in Ye Olde Days you pretty much had the same prices across consoles. There's probably something a anti-competitive group should of looked into actually. Which this helped maintain a nice healthy margin on games, and people didn't really question why games cost that much. They're all the same price, there probably was a reason for it. But now DD has come out, games are piss easy to make for PC and iPhones n all that jazz, and suddenly people are questioning why one studio for some reason spends millions on a game, charges £40 a pop for it, when some guy in his bedroom is making equally fun games on a shoestring budget and selling it for 59p a pop. All that's bad is people are now actively questioning why console and handheld games are at permanent and relatively high price points. And should they continue down that root all the shitty shovelware titles at the very least are going to get crippled by it (which is probably why it's Nintendo bringing this up) Oh and we're not just talking Phone games either, which are very pick up n play kind of things, but you've got the cheap indie games on PC. Magicka as a console game would probably set you back £30, or wouldn't of even seen the light of day actually. Killing Floor = £15. Console version? £40. The cheap games fill a niche in the market that apparently isn't very niche. Personally I think it's great it makes giants like Nintendo quake in their boots a little. Might make them a bit more competitive n spice up their pricing a bit for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteer01 Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) And should they continue down that root all the shitty shovelware titles at the very least are going to get crippled by it (which is probably why it's Nintendo bringing this up) Very, very valid point you make there. I would also say there are a few Xbox Indie games that are also great and worth their asking price, and obviously Microsoft doesn't feel nearly as threatened by this as Nintendo does. The fact that a game like Shadow Complex or Braid can come out as a reasonably price XBLA title and be successful makes me happy. I know PC gamers have a lot of options, but to see console users supporting downloadable games at relatively reasonable prices when they offer a good amount of playability and a good gaming experience, I think it's a good sign for gaming. Edited February 9, 2011 by peteer02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Capcom has been going in the right direction by offering AAA games at cheaper prices. Wonder if they'll give up on that or continue their trend. It is pretty insane though. I spent 10 euro on Magicka and can't believe the content I got for my money. 12hours until I finished the game (with MP sessions and other modes aside from playing only the main game) is mighty good for that. I even think 1 hour in an Internet/gaming cafe here is 1 euro. I mean, seriously why would I pay 5 times that much? I understand bigger budgets need bigger prices, but does every 50 euro game offer me even 10 hours of enjoyment on my first playthrough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteer01 Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Capcom has been going in the right direction by offering AAA games at cheaper prices. Wonder if they'll give up on that or continue their trend. It is pretty insane though. I spent 10 euro on Magicka and can't believe the content I got for my money. 12hours until I finished the game (with MP sessions and other modes aside from playing only the main game) is mighty good for that. I even think 1 hour in an Internet/gaming cafe here is 1 euro.Everything I've heard about Magicka makes me think: - It's great - It plays very well with a console controller Is there any news about it coming to consoles? That sounds like an XBLA title I'd write down on my calendar. Edited February 9, 2011 by peteer02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the industry, namely developers, need to look at what's achievable. Because of the new methods of distribution, it's much easier to get something out there without going through console licensing issues and such. What I mean is that, not everyone should be trying to make a big-budget £40 console game. You see so many games fall by the wayside because of over-stretching themselves. I think Double Fine may be heading in the right direction (although, you could argue their new downloadable games are a little overpriced). This being: seize upon a simple idea and make the most of it; don't let it overstay its welcome. And that's what most cheap games are: a pure and simple premise. It's what Tetris is (the game that made the Game Boy such a hit). I'm not even saying it has to be a cheap portable game, even something like Earth Defence Force 2017 fits the bill. Finally, of course you need big-budget games. There's not a single person here, who wouldn't want them. The quality and complexity of the work is not cheap. I understand why some are quite expensive, but not all of them need to be so expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Anyone remember how the whole Madden NFL exclusivity rights came about? 2K sports started releasing their game at $20 brand new to draw fans away from Madden and it got better reviews than Madden so what did EA do? They locked up the rights to the NFL and killed NFL2K. As far as casual games go, I don't think they are even the same market. It's like calling TV and Movies the same market. They're both motion pictures technically but they serve two completely different purposes and many people who are playing casual games never play AAA videogames and vice versa. I don't think one is directly impacting the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Just because it's AAA, doesn't mean it's casual, really. Taking Magicka as an example again (sorry, it's just fairly recent), it technically is competing with other hack and slash titles, regardless of their budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm a CAG so all games are cheap when I buy them. ;-) In all seriousness, the fairly rigid price structure of entertainment is ridiculous. All movies cost the same ticket price, CDs are pretty much all the same price and new games are usually $50-$60 at launch. I understand the curve of maximum profitability and stuff but I also understand that I can't drop $60 on every game I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah, the I understand why all games launch at $60. It's to maximize profits and some people are willing to buy the game for that much. After everyone who's willing to pay $60 has paid it they drop the price. Apparently people are willing to pay $50 for mario games until the end of time because they never drop in price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Well if New Super Mario Bros Wii constantly showing up in the top charts for the Wii, Nintendo would be silly to drop its price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah, Nintendo really suck on dropping prices. It's annoying cos I want to help bulk up my mums/sisters Wii Library but I can't pump out £35 a pop. I'd hoped with Galaxy 2 out that Galaxy 1 would eventually drop in price. No such luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Super Mario 64 DS hasn't even dropped in price. We're talking about a launch title DS game that was a remake of an N64 game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excel_excel Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Basically. That said I think that the industry needs to start pricing games more appropriately. While some Nintendo games have gone down its a disgrace Mario Kart is still around €40, they really need to break out that budget 'classics' pricing line in the US and the EU seeing as Japan gets it. Anyway I rarely buy games launch at full price these days. Like Vanquish. I liked the demo but I'm not paying €50 for the full game. and I didn't. Gamestop had a sale on and I got it for €18 new in that cool venicular (oooo spelled it right first try!) cover. As for these awesome cheap PC games and mobile games I'm all for it. So what if you hate Angry Birds? Look at the way the devs are supporting the release with free DLC. Its a good thing in every way possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeeferton Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I like cheap games. I don't know how they could be bad for the industry other than making Nintendo look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 that cool venicular (oooo spelled it right first try!) cover. Isn't it 'lenticular'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah, Nintendo really suck on dropping prices. It's annoying cos I want to help bulk up my mums/sisters Wii Library but I can't pump out £35 a pop. I'd hoped with Galaxy 2 out that Galaxy 1 would eventually drop in price. No such luck. The thing is, that Nintendo has no reason to drop those prices. When titles are still selling at $50 a pop, why lower them? You only lower the price if you make more profit that way. Since the cost of making each disc and case combo is so low if Nintendo sold 100 copies at $50 they'd make $5,000. Suppose they lower the price to $30 and sell 150 copies. They sold more copies but only made $4,500. At that point it makes more business sense to leave the price at $50. Nintendo does lower the price on some games (Metroid Other M comes to mind) but I really wish there was a Player's Choice line for the Wii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I like cheap games. I don't know how they could be bad for the industry other than making Nintendo look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excel_excel Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 that cool venicular (oooo spelled it right first try!) cover. Isn't it 'lenticular'? FFFFFUUUUU WHY DID I CALL IT VENICULAR? ITS NOT EVEN A WORD. venicular...lenticular......SHINY. That's the one. Don't go out of your depht excel, its ok cover is awesome lookie any thing that makes Nintendo lower their prices is a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Cheap games are good, no question about that. The alternative is that we continue as we have most of this generation, with nearly every developer shooting for Call of Duty-style sales, failing miserably, and closing it's doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I honestly believe we need a tier system when it comes to games production. It exists but it's not very refined. Over the years it's more or less refined in the film industry. We know that there's game developers which are pretty similar to production houses for films (particularly when it's outside the Hollywood system). I've got an equation. Currently iOS and Android releases are pretty much equivalent to youtube, vimeo and other similar digital platform released videos. There's quality in a sea of filth. There's some well produced stuff on both, but generally it is a free for all. Games on PSN, XBLA and Steam-only(DD Only) are similar to films created by a production house and in some case indies (but most indies particularlty the ones whose work isn't aired are more like XBLIG which is almost like IFC even with the bureaucracy) too. This is because there's a budget usually associated with them, some proper developers with development time and more public awareness that they can create some awareness before release. We have the games on retail. These usually fit the AAA games which are like blockbusters and other games which while having a major budget still are less than AAA just like say how the smaller studios within a big studio house like Screen gems and weinhouse pictures, etc operate. What's missing is well TV movies, shows and that category. While they fit in broadcast the dev cycle for a show shares similarities with films. Episodic gaming tries to fit into that bracket, but it doesn't really work with the exception of telltale games because people price the episodes too high. However the TV movie category doesn't even exist in games. In fact there needs to be this category of games, These games may have a decent budget, use voice actors, actors, talent, studios, etc who aren't busy with a major game to release a mid-budget game that has good gameplay mechanics and an iffy story. The focus should be to give cheap and quick entertainment but higher QC. They need to differentiate themselves from the offerings on PSN, XBLA and Steam releases by being of a higher quality than your average £8/800pt game. It can cost £20-25. A title that should have been in that category is Enslaved. Everything about that game is like a syfy movie. I'm sure if they went that route it would have helped them. I didn't like the game as much but I know that it would be good entertainment for £20. It would also be good if there's a service from a company that's separate from the current digital platforms. Lets call it tiered gaming. Basically you will be paying £5-15 a month for a subscribed service by which they give you games of different types as part of that subscription. You don't get to keep all the games permanently (in that way it'll be similar to PLUS) but it'll be more similar to Cable TV. You have 60 days(minimum, max would be subscription period) from activation/download of the game to have total access to that game. After which you pay a fee (the rate depends on the type of game - minis and small games should be free while titled games would be priced higher) to own it permanently. Just like cable, it will provide you with new games (shows), new films (tv movies) and games that were out 6months ago as part of your subscription. To have added ownership of the game you pay a little extra. But this way you do get to try games instantly, games you might have missed out on. But it'll also come with all the problems of cable. Currently as is ownership of any game is dubious as we only own the 'license' to the game and most online portiions of the game pretty much are killed in 5 years leaving you with just the barebones singleplayer in some cases which may or may not be supported in the future. At least this way you do end up getting more out of it. Not to mention there are many games that people play for the first two months and then don't care at all. So long as trophies/achievements associated with the game are connected to your account most casual customers will be pleased. it also could help promote games to people that might not normally try those games. Mind you it will come at a cost, since it's expensive to maintain such a network. But if they can tie up with internet providers to come up with an interesting solution we'll actually have some change. Of course the logistics of this is massive, so for it to actually work will take a long time to never. The companies who would come with this idea will need to be retailer friendly of course as physical games will still be sold and these guys need to support it which will help lower digital costs instead of the current climate where physical retail will be cheaper than digital for the most part as they pay for advertising particularly for 3rd party games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgetfulBrain Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 that cool venicular (oooo spelled it right first try!) cover. Isn't it 'lenticular'? FFFFFUUUUU WHY DID I CALL IT VENICULAR? ITS NOT EVEN A WORD. venicular...lenticular......SHINY. That's the one. Don't go out of your depht excel, its ok cover is awesome lookie any thing that makes Nintendo lower their prices is a good thing Doooood. That's like. 3D, but without glasses. Also, regarding cheap games - I bought Magicka because it was $10 - I wouldn't have otherwise. In fact, if something I kind of want is under $20, I will almost always buy it. If it's more than that, unless it's a new release that I have a specific reason to buy, I will no longer get it. $20 and under is a sweet price point - and if a game prices itself in that range to begin with, why not? Magicka is holding the top slot in Bestsellers last time I checked on Steam, and they must be making oodles of money. Same with Minecraft. I guess smaller teams can afford lower price points, and you need to sell X as many copies to meet the same amount you would have at a higher price point but... Eh. I'm not an economics guy. I never took that class and I'm hideous with numbers. This isn't my field. But I will buy a game if it looks good and is under $20, that much I do know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Your second bit sounds like Onlive. As for the £20 ($30 for you US) "TV Game" concept, I'm in favour. There's plenty of games priced around that point on Steam, but not so much on consoles. And I think we do need more. Not every game needs a $40million budget and to sell millions. There are many titles that would be more appropriately priced at £20 instead of £40. Sports titles like FIFA I think would be a big one. A fair chunk of those Move titles too.And I'd have other examples too but looking through I can't yet see much that could do with a cheaper release. I did notice GAME still has True Crime up for pre-order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Well I thought of onlive but that depends heavily on stream speeds. My suggestion is to have a third party that's tied to the central ip of a country but available for midbudget to a larger consumer and is platform tied. No extra console. It needs retail support. As for mid budget titles, that can be made if companies realize that they can cut prod costs by hiring fresh-inter talent instead of award winning movie tie-up talent. Btw you can buy magika at greenmangamimg for 6.49 and it's steam activated. Currently I'm getting trained on 3D for low budget production and break's up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think the system we're getting is pretty good right now. Games launch at full price for a short while, then drop in tiers after a few months. Many games are down to $30 or even $20 after just a year in the market. And really, $20-$30 is the perfect range for me and I buy 99% of my serious (read: not impulsive *glares at Steam*) purchases when games hit that range. I only get them at launch when it's something special (I'll certainly buy Skyrim at launch, for instance). Because of this recent trend I've been spending so much more money in games the past couple of years than in the past. As for Reggie's statements, I don't really agree with him on any level. Aside from his blatant hypocrisy of denouncing the competition's games as "disposable" even though it's his platforms that have by far the worst shovelware in the industry, he's conveniently ignoring the facts that 1) this industry is very large and is able to accommodate games of many types, even the cheap $1 ones from the iPhone marketplace and 2) mobile phone gaming is still largely separate from proper handheld gaming. If we're strictly speaking what's "good for the industry", what Reggie's talking about is really a non-issue. All I see from his statements are his fears that Nintendo may not be able to charge $40 for first party 3DS games for 5 years in a row without dropping the price once. And you know what? Tough shit, pal. That kind of pricing is clearly becoming antiquated, and this industry changes and morphs in every way constantly. If the industry is changing its shape to make significantly lower prices in games acceptable, you either do that or you stay behind and fall behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 http://www.gamesindu...tendo-to-evolve THQ basically suggesting going for cheaper games, $29-$39, and subsidising it with a bunch of DLC. Apparently they're really pushing for Sony, MS n Nintendo to adopt this kind of model. They also have a sticking point with MS cos MS don't let publishers choose DLC price point, it's set "bands". And if someone pops out with a platform that lets them do this model easier, they'll say fuck you to the current big 3 unless they've adapted too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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