X-Men

[Hot Heart]

My problem with First Class is I feel they wrapped things up too tightly. Did Xavier really need to be crippled? Watching him walk around, hitting on ladies, being a groooooovy dude was one of the best things about the movie, it would have been nice to have kept that going for the sequel.

 

I see what you're saying, but I don't think he could be that same playboy character again anyway. The whole idea was that he becomes 'the professor' and takes on this responsibility, even wiping the mind of the woman he loved to ensure their anonymity (you know, hiding out at his childhood mansion...) The injury could've been saved for a different story later on, sure, but I think it had a great impact where it is and fit very well thematically.

[deanb]

It wrapped things up very fast. Xavier and Magnus knew each other for just under two weeks, yet they'd become very close friends in that time span that both get along well enough decades later despite their philosophical differences. It'll be hard to just wash away all the rather valid resentment Xavier should have of magneto.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Is it friendship or respect?

[deanb]

Little from column A, little from column B. Given the ending of First Class though there should generally be neither.

 

(Though I should note other than a few niggles here n there, I do rather enjoy it. Top X-Men film alongside X-Men 1)

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

I'm not sure what you mean by neither. They have ideological differences and Xavier seems like the type who can still respect someone on the other side.

[deanb]

In First Class Magneto is directly responsible for crippling him, and minutes before that kills a man despite Xaviers wishes, and then also nicks his adoptive sister too (though Xavier was partly to blame on that), and to top it off they'd only known each other over a week. So despite comic lore, and established relationship in the earlier films, First Class has an ending where technically none of that should pass.

[TheMightyEthan]

I honestly don't understand why First Class is supposed to be so good.  The best I can say about it was that it was fine.  It was better than X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

 

If I treat it in my head as a reboot rather than a prequel that fixes some of my problems with it (mostly the continuity errors), but still the whole final act is just silly.  That's where it lost me when I watched it again recently.  And the fact that the whole thing takes place over two weeks.  6 months would have been much more natural-feeling.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

I honestly don't understand why First Class is supposed to be so good

 

It wasn't cheesy, the writing was better than all of the other movies, the acting was better, they do a better job at making you relate to the characters.

[TheMightyEthan]

Oh come one, it's not cheesy?  What the hell was that "let's show off all our powers in this government hideout" scene then?  Shit makes me cringe.  And again, the whole final act is just silly.  Like, not that it's ridiculous compared to the real world, but that it's presented in a silly fashion which clashes with most of the rest of the movie.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

I don't think that part was cheesy because they were all just kids showing off their powers. It works within the context of the movie just fine. The final act didn't seem very silly.

[TheMightyEthan]

It felt to me like a really hamfisted way of showing the audience what everyone's powers were, and not natural in the slightest.

 

Oh well, opinions.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

I think it would be hamfisted if it was a serious scene but it wasn't.

[Hot Heart]

It wrapped things up very fast. Xavier and Magnus knew each other for just under two weeks, yet they'd become very close friends in that time span that both get along well enough decades later despite their philosophical differences. It'll be hard to just wash away all the rather valid resentment Xavier should have of magneto.

 

For starters, that's part of why I would've preferred it stayed its own canon. They said they were valuing story over continuity and that's what I liked about it.

 

I never felt that it was implausible for them to be friends or at least respect one another. If you consider all they accomplished in such a short space of time, and the fact that they're mutants, it bonds them together somewhat. On top of that, Xavier got inside Magneto's mind, saw his past and felt the same things as him. Plus, Xavier wouldn't be spiteful anyway; he wants to be the better man. If anything, Magneto has respect for Xavier but Xavier could be said to pity Magneto and still wants to see the good in him.

[TheMightyEthan]

On top of that, Xavier got inside Magneto's mind, saw his past and felt the same things as him.

Thank you, now I'm okay with them becoming such deep and lasting friends so fast.  I still would have liked it better if they had been allies longer before becoming ideological enemies though.

 

And I still feel like the wrapped all the backstory up in too neat a bow.

[Hot Heart]

Oh, I don't doubt that it would've been cool to see them kicking arse together a little longer, but I don't hold that against what they did ultimately go for.

[TheMightyEthan]

It's not that that would have been cooler, it's that the way they did it felt so rushed.  "We have to get in ALL THE BACKSTORY!!!!11"  I feel like the story would have worked better if Magneto didn't turn against them until the second movie.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

That's under the assumption that they wanted to do it as a series. They didn't know how successful it would be so they wanted a movie that stood up on its own.

[TheMightyEthan]

And I think it would have done so without needing Magneto to turn.  Why did everything of importance in their lives have to happen in this 2 week period?  It just seems contrived.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Because that's when they met. You do get to see their lives before they met so I don't know why you keep saying 2 weeks.

[TheMightyEthan]

I'm sorry, I'm confusing the overall timespan of the move with the period of time they spent training at the mansion. (I mean, obviously I knew the scenes with them as kids weren't within 2 weeks of the end, but the rest of it).

 

Regardless, I still feel like they tried to cram too much into the movie, and it doesn't work very well imo.

 

*Edit* - And to elaborate on what I mean about the final act, I felt like the conflict with the two fleets was really poorly handled.  How they're just like "oh, thanks for not nuking us, now let's team up, to waste these people who are actually working for us, because that totally makes sense!"

Edited June 7, 2013 by TheMightyEthan

[TheMightyEthan]

I also thought the training montages at the mansion, especially with Beast, were really cheesy.

[Hot Heart]

*Edit* - And to elaborate on what I mean about the final act, I felt like the conflict with the two fleets was really poorly handled.  How they're just like "oh, thanks for not nuking us, now let's team up, to waste these people who are actually working for us, because that totally makes sense!"

 

If I recall, they never really knew what was going on. All they saw was the sub being lifted, followed by the big hurricane then the plane and sub both crashing. After that, there was the little fights going on where a big blue monster was scrapping with the red teleporty guy who killed dozens of CIA guys; a flying chick, spitting acid around; and a guy blasting red lasers.

 

Plus, the more sympathethic government characters (that one dude) are dead or Moira. And I'm not sure if Moira's message about them having stopped Shaw got through. So, the fleets were just trying to blow up the whole thing to be safe, which seemed plausible enough to me. My main concern was why they figured that would stop the flying and teleporty people (or the guy who absorbs explosions, if they were assuming Shaw was still alive).

[TheMightyEthan]

Did they know what Shaw's power was?

 

Also, I thought Moira was in communication with the American fleet the whole time (she was certainly in communication with someone).  That they knew she was there, and that at least some of the mutants were on their side, they were just accepting her as collateral damage and fuck the mutants cause they're weird.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Yeah I thought the ending was just like "Fuck it, kill all the freaks!"

[Hot Heart]

Did they know what Shaw's power was?

 

Also, I thought Moira was in communication with the American fleet the whole time (she was certainly in communication with someone).  That they knew she was there, and that at least some of the mutants were on their side, they were just accepting her as collateral damage and fuck the mutants cause they're weird.

 

That depends on whether anyone lived to tell about that blast he unleashed at the CIA base or whether anyone else (perhaps Magneto. Emma Frost at an outside chance) told them. But they know about the other dangerous mutants there anyway.

 

And, yes, she was in communication to begin with, but after the crash I don't think she was. They make a point of including a bit where she tries to radio to tell them that the threat's been neutralised, and to the best of my recollection no one hears it ("Hello? HELLO?!"). It could be possible that it was ignored, but either way I think they'd already accepted her and Xavier's team as collateral damage. And Xavier tries to rationalise with the "They're just following orders" line, which is not the best thing to say to Magneto.