GeoHot asks for donations to fight Sony’s PS3 hacking lawsuit

[peteer01]

http://www.techspot.com/news/42495-geohot-asks-for-donations-to-fight-sonys-ps3-hacking-lawsuit.html

 

GeoHot asks for donations to fight Sony’s PS3 hacking lawsuit

By Emil Protalinski, TechSpot.com

Published: February 20, 2011, 1:14 PM EST

PlayStation 3 jailbreaker George Hotz, also known as GeoHot, is asking for donations to help pay for legal defense fees in his fight against Sony. He specifically calls the electronic giant a bully and then outlines why he needs financial help:

Media, I need your help. This is the first time I have ever asked. Please, if you support this cause, help me out and spread the word.

I want, by the time this goes to trial, to have Sony facing some of the hardest hitting lawyers in the business.

Together, we can help fix the system

Donations here are for legal defense ONLY

I checked with my lawyers before setting this up

If you have another substantial way to donate aside from money, let me know

(continued at the link above)

Personally, I hope he gets all the help he needs. I'm pretty anti-piracy, but there's a difference between telling people it's illegal to create and distribute code to jailbreak a PS3 (especially when jailbreaking an iPhone was deemed legal) and piracy.

 

I also liked his offer to settle, "I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It'd be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it."

 

We'll see what happens, but it's amazing how many people are anti-GeoHot because his code can be misused to allow people to cheat in multiplayer games. It seems like "This does not directly negatively impact my gaming experience, I have no major problem with it..." and "This is affecting my COD experience, I can't believe GeoHot is jeopardizing the jobs of hardworking people at Sony, that selfish asshole!" are too many people's thought process when it comes to fiddling with consoles/handhelds/MP3s/smart phones.

Edited February 23, 2011 by peteer01

[MasterDex]

The words coming out of the mouths of many anti-Hotz people are horrible. He should die for wanting the freedom to modify his property? He should be raped in prison because he wants to share his knowledge? It seems that the SDF are using Hotza as a icon of disdain to project all their anger onto. There were people exploiting and pirating PS3 games before Hotz came on the scene and while what Hotz did might make things easier for those nefarious people, those were not his intentions.

 

We don't ban screwdrivers because they can be used to kill.

We don't ban DVD-burners because they can be used to pirate.

We don't ban torrents because they can be used to distribute pirate material.

 

And we shouldn't give up our rights to modify systems that we OWN because the modifications can be used for nefarious deeds.

 

I can't donate anything but I wish him the best and I hope he wins the lawsuit, for the sake of us all.

[deanb]

I don't for one second believe he did this for altruistic reasons. He knew what this would be capable of and he knew exactly what would happen. Fuck "homebrew".

I don't wish ill will on him, but I won't like it if he "wins". Won't like it if Sony win either.

[CorgiShinobi]

I don't for one second believe he did this for altruistic reasons. He knew what this would be capable of and he knew exactly what would happen. Fuck "homebrew".

I don't wish ill will on him, but I won't like it if he "wins". Won't like it if Sony win either.

My sentiments exactly.

 

I don't hate him, not one bit, but he's not my saint. Unless he is ignorant, he should have known the consequences, especially when dealing with Sony. This, "Uh, I'm going to need your cash because we need this" is not, in fact, my concern.

[excel_excel]

I think he already got like enough for the first round apparently, so he stopped accepting.

[Cyber Rat]

I don't for one second believe he did this for altruistic reasons. He knew what this would be capable of and he knew exactly what would happen. Fuck "homebrew".

I don't wish ill will on him, but I won't like it if he "wins". Won't like it if Sony win either.

 

If he wins, he gets mentioned in a Wikipedia article.

If Sony wins, it could affect how Sony and other companies will handle consoles in the future. Serial keys, no homebrew where it could actually work, no modding, EULAs actually being viable in court... I don't know what else, this is just what I assume could happen? I'm sure other people are more qualified to predict the consequences of either outcome.

[TCP]

He knew exactly what he was doing when he released that code. In my books, he's a criminal who not only doesn't deserve a dime but should also go to jail.

[Mal]

I wonder what he did has anything to do with how my brother's game data for some games getting wiped after he encountered a hacker in MW2. Heh.

 

Not to say modding and such are bad things but in the console enviroment, regular folks really don't have any damn defense besides the ones put up by the companies themselves.

[MasterDex]

He knew exactly what he was doing when he released that code. In my books, he's a criminal who not only doesn't deserve a dime but should also go to jail.

 

If he's a criminal then anyone that turned their old Xbox into a media player is a criminal. The first people to jailbreak their Iphones are criminals and we're all living in 1984. Next thing you know, I'll be a criminal for borrowing a game from a friend.

[Pirandello]

He knew exactly what he was doing when he released that code.

That's exactly my sentiment, actually. Not so much on the jail part. What I know of this current issue is actually pretty little.

 

I'd probably be lying if I said he didn't know the risks by going public with the code. I also very much doubt that he'd actually counted on Sony to follow up on the lawsuit, and now he's landed himself in hot water.

[TheMightyEthan]

Oh, there's no question that he knew it could be used for piracy, but that's beside the point.

[excel_excel]

 

We'll see what happens, but it's amazing how many people are anti-GeoHot because his code can be misused to allow people to cheat in multiplayer games. It seems like "This does not directly negatively impact my gaming experience, I have no major problem with it..." and "This is affecting my COD experience, I can't believe GeoHot is jeopardizing the jobs of hardworking people at Sony, that selfish asshole!" are too many people's thought process when it comes to fiddling with consoles/handhelds/MP3s/smart phones.

 

Completely forgot this part about COD, but the cheating on COD had nothing to do with this, in fact people have been using those kind of hacks on Modern Warfare 2 for ages before all this stuff was released. I think all you had to do was hexedit your save file to do it. People blaming Geohot for the COD hacks should look at why its only Modern Warfare 2 that has all these problems and not every other PS3 multiplayer title

Edited February 23, 2011 by excel_excel

[Vargras]

Last I saw, the code he had used to jailbreak the PS3 didn't even allow for any actual piracy - it simply "re-enabled" the OtherOS option, so to speak.

 

I don't even get why they would even remove that feature. It was fairly popular among users, and I know a few universities even used them because of the OtherOS capability.

[CrowKnow]

Last I saw, the code he had used to jailbreak the PS3 didn't even allow for any actual piracy - it simply "re-enabled" the OtherOS option, so to speak.

 

I don't even get why they would even remove that feature. It was fairly popular among users, and I know a few universities even used them because of the OtherOS capability.

Wasn't it because of Geohot in the first place?

http://www.ps3news.com/PS3-Hacks/ps3-is-hacked-by-george-hotz-hello-hypervisor-im-geohot/

Edited February 23, 2011 by ChrnoXIII

[RockyRan]

Oh, there's no question that he knew it could be used for piracy, but that's beside the point.

 

It's actually kind of the whole point. It makes no difference if the intent to pirate wasn't there, he still produced and distributed a method that made piracy much easier (and in many ways simply "viable"), fully knowing that it was going to hapepen.

 

I don't buy this whole talk about homebrew. Other OS was actually implemented in the first place to PROMOTE homebrew in a way that didn't involve hacks and jailbreaking consoles, as a way of getting the homebrew without ushering in the pirating that inevitably comes with it.

 

And what did people do? Nothing. Really, all this talk about putting Other OS on a grand pedestal is equally as BS. The amount of people who actually used this was a tiny, tiny fraction of the people, and the amount of people who actually developed applications for the PS3 through the Other OS system was even smaller.

 

People tend to have the timeline of events wrong. GeoHot started hacking away at the PS3 BEFORE the removal of Other OS. Contrary to popular belief (and contrary to what he claims), he didn't do it "for the homebrew" because there already was a legitimate platform for it at the time. In fact, the only reason why Other OS was taken out was because hackers like GeoHot got a little too close to cracking the console for Sony's comfort through Other OS, so they took out the weakest link that incidentally wasn't used by a vast majority of the people.

 

Do I support Sony's move? Not really, but I don't condemn them for it either. Sure, we can whine about "taking out advertised features" all we want, but the fact of the matter is only a very tiny fraction of the PS3 audience actually used that feature, so let's be realistic here. For those who actually used it, of course they have every right to whine and bitch and moan, but everyone else is just jumping on a hate bandwagon, blowing this situation out of proportion.

 

I'm all for consumer rights, but I'm against consumer mobs. This kind of mob mentality of "YEAH CONSUMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT, COMPANIES ARE ALWAYS EVIL" is just as ridiculous as the apologist consumers who are so far up companies asses that you'd think they were on their payroll. Likewise, GeoHotz isn't the martyr or pro-consumer saint that people try to make him out to be. He had no reason to hack the console, but he did anyway. And he didn't do it for the homebrew either, he did it for the allure of cracking a console that spent years and years in the market without a jailbreak. Just that fact alone drove many people to try to crack the console. In fact, that's probably the number one reason why hackers hack: just because they can and they like finding ways of getting into closed systems.

 

Maybe if people were this pro-homebrew in the first place, they would've actually used the platform to develop homebrew rather than hack the console anyway for shits and giggles.

[TheMightyEthan]

Last I saw, the code he had used to jailbreak the PS3 didn't even allow for any actual piracy - it simply "re-enabled" the OtherOS option, so to speak.

He didn't actually release any of the software necessary for piracy, but the crack he released completely bypasses all of the PS3's encryption, meaning that now people can write whatever code they want to run on the machine.

[TheMightyEthan]

It makes no difference if the intent to pirate wasn't there, he still produced and distributed a method that made piracy much easier (and in many ways simply "viable"), fully knowing that it was going to hapepen.

I disagree on this point, I think it makes all the difference in the world.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

GeoHotz is known for taking credit for other peoples work and is known for being a diva about everything he does. He doesn't deserve your money. If anyone does it's Fail0verflow

[RockyRan]

It makes no difference if the intent to pirate wasn't there, he still produced and distributed a method that made piracy much easier (and in many ways simply "viable"), fully knowing that it was going to hapepen.

I disagree on this point, I think it makes all the difference in the world.

 

What difference would that be? Thinking "I'm intending to promote piracy" and "I don't want to support piracy, but this hack makes it viable and will be widely available. I'm going to release it anyway" makes little difference in the grand scheme of things. You don't have to be a supporter of piracy in order to help advance it. GeoHot IS helping advance it, and at the end of the day that's what matters, not whether or not he says he intended to or not.

[Thorgi Duke of Frisbee]

GeoHotz is less than human. He is a disgusting creature that is only getting support because it may look bad for gamers if he loses. He doesn't care about your rights; he only cares about making stupid YouTube videos and taking credit for things he didn't do. He doesn't deserve to die, but I hope he loses everything. Maybe he'll think twice about his behavior.

[TheMightyEthan]

It makes no difference if the intent to pirate wasn't there, he still produced and distributed a method that made piracy much easier (and in many ways simply "viable"), fully knowing that it was going to hapepen.

I disagree on this point, I think it makes all the difference in the world.

What difference would that be? Thinking "I'm intending to promote piracy" and "I don't want to support piracy, but this hack makes it viable and will be widely available. I'm going to release it anyway" makes little difference in the grand scheme of things. You don't have to be a supporter of piracy in order to help advance it. GeoHot IS helping advance it, and at the end of the day that's what matters, not whether or not he says he intended to or not.

Because I don't think people should be prohibited from being able to use their stuff the way they want to just because other people will misuse it.

 

To me that's like saying that Fermi was wrong to build a nuclear reactor because he knew that other people would be able to use the technology to make bombs. (No, I'm not saying that GeoHot is as great as Fermi, or anything, so don't read more into the comparison than I put there.)

[deanb]

While not exactly the same, from my understanding the recent jailbreak law thing said that as a consumer you're free to jailbreak your phone. But you are not still free to reverse engineer or bypass an DRM n such systems.

I'd imagine it's similar here. You're cool to do what you want to your device. But engineering the method of bypassing the security systems n such is still a big no-no.

[peteer01]

It's actually kind of the whole point. It makes no difference if the intent to pirate wasn't there, he still produced and distributed a method that made piracy much easier (and in many ways simply "viable"), fully knowing that it was going to hapepen.

RockyRan, think about what you're saying. You're saying, "It doesn't matter what his intent is, this can be used in some way to make piracy easier," and implying that that alone condemns his work.

 

I don't buy this whole talk about homebrew. Other OS was actually implemented in the first place to PROMOTE homebrew in a way that didn't involve hacks and jailbreaking consoles, as a way of getting the homebrew without ushering in the pirating that inevitably comes with it.

Did you try Other OS? A friend of mine bought a PS3 at launch specifically because Other OS and Blu-ray were enough for him to justify his purchase...except that Other OS was extremely gimped, and didn't allow access to much of the PS3's power nor hardware. If people could have properly dabbled in homebrew with Other OS using all the PS3's processing power, your argument would hold more water.

 

The amount of people who actually used this was a tiny, tiny fraction of the people

Comments like this piss me off. I'm an American living in Japan and I'm used to being part of the tiny, tiny fraction of people that put up with BS because I'm in that tiny, tiny fraction. US immigration wants to interrogate my family because we're married but my Japanese wife isn't a US citizen and doesn't have a green card? Don't worry, I'm only a tiny, tiny fraction of the people. Microsoft and Sony are geofencing potentially objectionably content? Don't worry, me and the other people affected are only a tiny, tiny fraction of the people.

 

If you want to talk about the relevancy of the removal of Other OS, whether or not a large or small group was affected isn't the point. The point is that people did buy a PS3 because of Other OS, and that functionality was taken away.

 

GeoHot started hacking away at the PS3 BEFORE the removal of Other OS. Contrary to popular belief (and contrary to what he claims), he didn't do it "for the homebrew" because there already was a legitimate platform for it at the time.

Other OS was never a legitimate platform for homebrew. People wanted to tinker with the PS3's...not be limited by some hypervisor like they were with Other OS.

 

we can whine about "taking out advertised features" all we want, but the fact of the matter is only a very tiny fraction of the PS3 audience actually used that feature, so let's be realistic here. For those who actually used it, of course they have every right to whine and bitch and moan, but everyone else is just jumping on a hate bandwagon, blowing this situation out of proportion.

In my original post, I was lamenting the fact that too many people seem to be of the, "Meh, this doesn't directly affect me, so I don't care about it." People aren't "blowing this situation out of proportion", this situation is going to set legal precedent.

 

If you want to hate Geohot, go ahead, but I recommend you at least read what he has to say first.

 

From geohot.com:

Sony doesn't care if what you did was legal' date=' if they don't like it, they sue. Sony tried to sue a guy for getting his AIBO to do non Sony approved tricks, making it apparent that they don't really care about piracy, they care about control. In (Sony v Bleem), Bleem was the winner on all counts, but the high cost of a legal defense shut them down. [u']Fortunately, that suit helped set precedent on the legality of emulators.[/u] I would hate to lose this case due to resource starvation, and with the support of the masses, I won't. Lets turn the bully back on itself. This case has the ability to set a huge precedent for consoles and all closed systems to come. The other two should be begging Sony to back off.

 

Sony sued the wrong guy

I am an advocate against mass piracy, do not distribute anyone's copyrighted work but my own, do not take crap lying down, and am even pro DRM in a sense. For example, I believe Apple has every right to lock down their iPhone in the factory as much as they want, but once it's paid for and mine, I have the right to unlock it, smash it, jailbreak it, look at it, and hack on it. Fortunately, the courts agree with me on this point.

My PS3 goal has been to provide users a legitimate path to homebrew, which by the standards of all previous cases (or, in reverse), is 100% legal. Sony does not even try to allege piracy or copyright infringement in this case, they allege I did things like play "super mario world, an unauthorized game" on MY PS3. And access MY PS3 in an unauthorized way. Who are they to authorize what I do with my taxed and paid for property?

That's only a short snippet, and I think the page is worth your time.

 

He had no reason to hack the console, but he did anyway.

Maybe if people were this pro-homebrew in the first place, they would've actually used the platform to develop homebrew rather than hack the console anyway for shits and giggles.

If you didn't know before I started my post, you probably already know by now...but the PS3 only had access to 6 of the 7 SPEs and had a hypervisor restricting access to the RSX. So yes, there were reasons to hack the console for homebrew.

 

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

 

If you haven't already seen the Extra Credit's video on Piracy, I recommend that. I like what they have to say about the PS3 from the 2:15 mark.

Edited February 24, 2011 by peteer01

[RockyRan]

RockyRan, think about what you're saying. You're saying, "It doesn't matter what his intent is, this can be used in some way to make piracy easier," and implying that that alone condemns his work.

 

Yes, it does. Look, in criminal law (not that I'm saying he's a criminal, but bear with me), you still get punished for certain offenses even if you "didn't intend" for anything to happen. In many cases, knowing that something will eventually lead to a crime is enough to get you convicted. I'm applying the same principle. You don't have to directly support something to help advance it, and you don't have to directly promote it to be responsible for it.

 

Did you try Other OS? A friend of mine bought a PS3 at launch specifically because Other OS and Blu-ray were enough for him to justify his purchase...except that Other OS was extremely gimped, and didn't allow access to much of the PS3's power nor hardware. If people could have properly dabbled in homebrew with Other OS using all the PS3's processing power, your argument would hold more water.

 

It holds enough water on its own just fine. The fact of the matter is, the availability was there, and just like hackers hack because they like getting into closed systems, homebrewers write homebrew because they like dealing with hardware restrictions. After all, if they didn't want to go through dealing with "gimped systems", homebrew writers would just write regular apps on a PC. But that's not what homebrewers like to do. They like to develop under specific hardware with whatever restrictions it might bring.

 

OtherOS wasn't unsupported by homebrewers because people didn't like it's restrictions, it was unsupported because people just didn't give a shit.

 

Comments like this piss me off. I'm an American living in Japan and I'm used to being part of the tiny, tiny fraction of people that put up with BS because I'm in that tiny, tiny fraction. US immigration wants to interrogate my family because we're married but my Japanese wife isn't a US citizen and doesn't have a green card? Don't worry, I'm only a tiny, tiny fraction of the people. Microsoft and Sony are geofencing potentially objectionably content? Don't worry, me and the other people affected are only a tiny, tiny fraction of the people.

 

If you want to talk about the relevancy of the removal of Other OS, whether or not a large or small group was affected isn't the point. The point is that people did buy a PS3 because of Other OS, and that functionality was taken away.

 

Funny how you ignored that next sentence of mine. I said, if you actually used it it's your right to bitch, but everyone else can fuck off. I don't normally say this, but in this situation so many bandwagon haters are getting their trolling fix from the removal of Other OS that they've begun to make urban myths about how Other OS was so wonderful and everybody used it. Do tell, if Other OS was as bad as you say it was, why was it so beloved?

 

Other OS was never a legitimate platform for homebrew. People wanted to tinker with the PS3's...not be limited by some hypervisor like they were with Other OS.

 

And why do people like to tinker with PS3's and not PCs? Because they like to deal with different environments and hardware. It's the homebrewer mantra to make as much out of as little as possible. Other OS was right up their alley.

 

In my original post, I was lamenting the fact that too many people seem to be of the, "Meh, this doesn't directly affect me, so I don't care about it." People aren't "blowing this situation out of proportion", this situation is going to set legal precedent.

 

That's not why I'm saying "fuck off if it doesn't affect you". I'm saying that because of the legions of people making false claims that everyone loved Other OS. I'm not in agreement that you should never be angry if something affects you, but in this specific case, with these many people blowing the situation out of proportion (and they ARE blowing it out of proportion. It's called "vocal minority"), that's the stance that I'm taking.

 

If you want to hate Geohot, go ahead, but I recommend you at least read what he has to say first.

 

I've read his post before, but frankly I don't care what someone has to say if the results of his work and his actions speak otherwise. It's the actions and their results that matter at the end of the day, not what a person claims in a blog.

 

If you didn't know before I started my post, you probably already know by now...but the PS3 only had access to 6 of the 7 SPEs and had a hypervisor restricting access to the RSX. So yes, there were reasons to hack the console for homebrew.

 

Again, the homebrewer's mantra and why they develop homebrew.

 

If you haven't already seen the Extra Credit's video on Piracy, I recommend that. I like what they have to say about the PS3 from the 2:15 mark.

 

I have, and I don't agree with a lot of the points they make. Not because I disagree with their content, but because I disagree that they make several points that are highly subjective and passing them off as if they were objective. Such as their "justification for piracy" bit, in which they don a gavel and begin to proclaim when it's right to pirate. I'm sorry, but who are they again to make these proclamations? They're obviously allowed to have an opinion, but I don't appreciate it when people pass it off as fact.

 

The bit with the PS3 homebrew was just pandering to their audience. Their "Don't mess with the Linux users, they're badass mothafuckas!!!" was pretty transparent.

Edited February 24, 2011 by RockyRan

[RockyRan]

It makes no difference if the intent to pirate wasn't there, he still produced and distributed a method that made piracy much easier (and in many ways simply "viable"), fully knowing that it was going to hapepen.

I disagree on this point, I think it makes all the difference in the world.

What difference would that be? Thinking "I'm intending to promote piracy" and "I don't want to support piracy, but this hack makes it viable and will be widely available. I'm going to release it anyway" makes little difference in the grand scheme of things. You don't have to be a supporter of piracy in order to help advance it. GeoHot IS helping advance it, and at the end of the day that's what matters, not whether or not he says he intended to or not.

Because I don't think people should be prohibited from being able to use their stuff the way they want to just because other people will misuse it.

 

To me that's like saying that Fermi was wrong to build a nuclear reactor because he knew that other people would be able to use the technology to make bombs. (No, I'm not saying that GeoHot is as great as Fermi, or anything, so don't read more into the comparison than I put there.)

 

I'm not saying they should be prohibited, I'm talking about GeoHot specifically. He wants to wash his hands by saying he doesn't support piracy, but his methods specifically facilitate it. He's helping advance it whether he wants to or not, and if that's going to get him in trouble, it's going to get him in trouble.

 

And just for the record, if tinkering with one's property involves reverse engineering and publishing exploits of security systems, you're not legally allowed to do it. The law probably could stand to be a little less draconian, but that's how it is at this point.