Deus Ex

[deanb]

Yeah seems it's had an update to the wording there. 

[toxicitizen]

God damn, this game is buggy in the most annoying ways. Like, nothing major or game breaking (at least, not in my case; seems a lot of people have run into an unavoidable crash during loading at a specific point). I'm on the last mission right now and I have an optional objective to take out a number of guards silently. Each time you take one out, counter goes up. Simple stuff. Find a couple of them having a chat in a staircase, so I take my chance: bolt out of cover and do a double takedown. Counter only goes up by one. For fuck's sake...

 

I mean, did they fire all their good programmers in-between games? No doubt their codebase is way more complex than anything I've ever worked with but even I can come up with a way to avoid something like that off the top of my head... I don't do this often but I was planning on doing another playthrough right after this one. But I think I'm gonna scratch that and hold off a little while, give them time to patch it up a bit more. :/

Edited August 27, 2016 by FLD

[TheMightyEthan]

Ever since today's patch I've been getting wicked bad screen tearing, no matter what I set vsync to.

[toxicitizen]

Welp, just finished it. Any worry about length turned out to be unfounded. Ended up taking me 32h to beat, which is comparable to what Human Revolution took me at launch. All things considered, it's a pretty solid game. It's the best Deus Ex has ever played and some of the side-missions were actually more interesting than the main story. But that's the problem, that main story is my biggest issue with the game.

 

(This was initially intended to be more of a brief highlight of my overall thoughts on the game until my longer write-up in the games you've beat thread but I just kept typing and it turned into this long-ass post so... whatever.)

 

I kinda want to say that this is MGSV all over again but that would be completely unfair to Mankind Divided. MGSV's story was borderline nonexistent and what was there was fucking trash. MD's story isn't bad, it's just not really a Deus Ex story. I thought Human Revolution's story was lacking in the conspiracy department but overall it still felt like Deus Ex. Mankind Divided really did not. Honestly, I have a feeling that the whole racism allegory thing was decided upon first and then they came up with a story to carry it, without really giving any consideration to whether or not it was a good fit for the series.

 

As for the ending, uh, yeah. I don't know if I'd call it abrupt so much as... not an ending? I'm now convinced that this is the first act of a story that was stretched to last an entire game. It's the best explanation for how little actually happens. Every single "major" story development feels... small. I mean, a sequel hook should introduce something new. Here, it's mostly just "Look at all these unresolved plot threads!!"

 

And honestly, this could actually explain my previous point about how it didn't feel like a Deus Ex story. Even the original took a little while to really get going and dive into the more interesting stuff that's now synonymous with Deus Ex. It's entirely possible that we simply haven't gotten to that point of the story yet. They do mention and hint at some elements that you would expect to play an important part in a Deus Ex story but they never do. If that's the case, that's kinda shitty but I can look past it IF we get another game within the next 2 years. Any longer than that would be ridiculous. Imagine if Human Revolution had ended right after the first Hengsha visit where you find out that the scientists are still alive and we hadn't gotten the second half of the story until now. That's not a perfect parallel but it's kinda what it feels like. 

 

I tried to keep this spoiler free but there is one specific thing I want to address. There's nothing about the main story in there, it's about how they handled the canon ending from HR as well one of the early side-missions. To keep things vague, it's the one that involves Sarif. You've probably all started it by now.

 

So, I was wrong about this. Turns out they didn't choose a canon ending for HR, they disregarded it entirely. Even fucking Jensen doesn't remember what happened, as I'm sure most of you will know if you're a few hours into the game. It seemed like they were setting up what happened following Panchaea to be a big mystery, especially with the new experimental augmentations that somehow appeared in Jensen's body and Jensen blacking out on like an entire year. That was one of the side-quests that was more interesting to me than the main story. I was really looking forward to getting answers on that one.

 

So, you get a little progress in that side-quest every time you return to Prague. That was cool, it was a big mystery and carrying it through the entire game made sense. I expected it might eventually even tie back into the main plot. So last warning, going to spoil how it ends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They fucking don't explain any of it! Jensen never remembers anything and the experimental augs remain a complete fucking mystery. The last time you speak with Sarif, he's basically going "Yeah, so I dunno 'bout any of that shit, Adam. Gonna have to let you draw your own conclusions on that one, son." Fucker, draw what conclusions? You've basically told me nothing!

 

I mean, there's a bit in the mid-credits scene that relates to it, I think, but even then it doesn't really tell you anything.This just goes back to how a lot of the plot threads are simply unresolved. Of all the story-related disappointments in the entire game, this is the biggest one for me.

 

On the bright side, looking at the achievements list it looks like I missed a handful of side-quests. So, there's at least that to look forward to whenever I get around to replaying it.

Edited August 27, 2016 by FLD

[deanb]

Yeah a common consensus seems to be story wise it's part one of a trilogy.

 

My playthrough is probably gonna be more than 30hrs just cos I've a nasty habit of trying to explore every nook and cranny. About to meet Rucker soon I believe. Was maybe gonna have a big playthrough this weekend but I've stuff to sort for my dad, so we'll see.

[Mister Jack]

Okay is it just me or is it really hard to combine the mine template with grenades to make mines?  I've tried combining over and over and it's only managed to work once.  It's a pain in the ass because I really need those mines.

[toxicitizen]

Yeah a common consensus seems to be story wise it's part one of a trilogy.

Right, and there's nothing inherently wrong with setting up a trilogy. The problem is that it doesn't feel like the first part of a trilogy, it feels like the first act of a single, smaller story. If they had a story that they were turning into a trilogy, then they should have expanded it and fleshed it out more. Hell, maybe even go back to the drawing boards and come up with a more elaborate trilogy plan. Here, it really feels like they just cut up what they had into three parts, maybe added a little filler and padding here and there and called it a day. If Mankind Divided had had a story that felt complete on its own like Human Revolution while leaving some stuff open for a sequel, that would've been awesome. I wouldn't be complaining about that.

 

Or fuck, even scale it back a little instead. Make it work as a single game. Did you know Montreal was initially supposed to be the third hub in Human Revolution? They had to cut it so instead we just got that little visit to Picus HQ. And while I would've fucking loved a Montreal hub, the game wasn't particularly worse off for the lack of it. There's something to be said for quality over quantity.

 

But as things are now, I kinda hope that they didn't actually take five years to make this. This doesn't really feel like a five years game, so I'm hoping that they had a production pipeline where they worked on future stuff in parallel and the next one is going to have a quicker turnaround time. That's the only way to make up for the shortcomings of the story. Waiting for this after HR was like waiting for the sequel to a movie. 5 years is a bit long but not really unreasonable. Waiting for a sequel to Mankind Divided feels more like waiting for the next season of a TV show or hell, maybe even a mid-season break. If you wait too long it's just not going to work. 

[TheMightyEthan]

Ever since today's patch I've been getting wicked bad screen tearing, no matter what I set vsync to.

Okay, so I think in the update they changed the in-game vsync setting to adaptive vsync, because forcing vsync on through my graphics card settings fixed the problem.

[Baconrath]

So is the consensus that it's pretty good despite the DLC likely foisted by a somewhat cancerous publisher?

[TheMightyEthan]

So is the consensus that it's pretty good despite the DLC likely foisted by a somewhat cancerous publisher?

Nailed it.

[Mr. GOH!]

I'm a decent bit into the game, and I just want to comment on quest structure. 

 

 

Specifically, I am in Golem (Utulek?) and have just gotten access to ARC's territory. The game provides you with three cllear ways to achieve this.

1. You can rescue the bother from the 4 police in the Narrows. You then get a password from him and the guard at the ARC elevator just lets you waltz in like a good guy.

2. You can talk to a vendor who is working for both ARC and the Mob, and you can either threaten to kill him or actually kill him or do him a favor and that will get you into ARC's territory through his smuggling route.

3. You can dispose of a particular police man in the market and loot him. I found this out because that police man conspicuously goes to an out-of-sightlines toilet to piss. The catch is he's standing an a pool of water you can simply throw a switch to electrify and he dies. II did that because LOL and lo and behold there was a card key to ARC. You might have to futz around with getting the guard away from the elevator or something, but that's a third way to get into ARC.

I find it weird that you can do all three at get all the XP for the different quests even if you're already gained access.I haven't gone into ARC, yet, so maybe it's a bug/exploit.

 

 

 

Loving the game.

[deanb]

Or the 4th way that i did:

 

jump on to the whale sculpture then jump up again and you're right at the entrance to the Throat. I did it by accident to end up in Arc. Had spoken with the lift guy with the passphrase though.

 

[Mr. GOH!]

For some reason I cannot quite put my finger on, this game reminds me s much of Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines as other Deus Ex games.

[TheMightyEthan]

I really wanted to like that game, but it was just so damn janky.

[Mr. GOH!]

It was rushed, sadly. It has a very long post-release history of fan patches and mods that make it a lot better. Wish we could get a similar RPG these days, since games like Deus Ex don't really let you define your character as much.

[deanb]

Oh man. So if you've hung out with "Helle" read on.

 

So I went back to my apartment, mainly cos I was told there was another aug harvesting incident right outside my apartment but I've yet to find that.

Anywho I'm thinking to myself "I don't remember flinging my play pots around", then I notice the bed is messed up and there's no way for you to do that. I put it down to "it's night, maybe Jensen has slept at some point?" But I'm thining more n more "I swear there's a bunch of stuff in this apartment like books n letters messed up that weren't previously". Then I notice a pocket secretary on my kitchen worktop. It's from "editorial desk" chiding me for setting Helle/Eliza 1.0 free. They've been in my apartment. Freaky as fuck. :/

 

 

Also did you guys bomb or bank? I banked (though made a save point so I can more easily experience the alternative). Totally got lost though cos I ended up in the end point of the mission while trying to find a alt path around a turret. The twisty alt route ways of the game slightly worked against itself in this case. I was like "I get the marker is pointing down but I've no way to go down". Turns out if you went the correct way around then there's a button that opens a big ass vault hatch to let you go up. No such button exists on the other side

[toxicitizen]

Also did you guys bomb or bank? I banked (though made a save point so I can more easily experience the alternative). Totally got lost though cos I ended up in the end point of the mission while trying to find a alt path around a turret. The twisty alt route ways of the game slightly worked against itself in this case. I was like "I get the marker is pointing down but I've no way to go down". Turns out if you went the correct way around then there's a button that opens a big ass vault hatch to let you go up. No such button exists on the other side

As in

 

 

 

going to save the watchmaker's daughter vs raiding the VersaLife vault? Went for the daughter and that resulted in a pretty interesting scene. Also got me an item that came in pretty handy later. Without spoiling anything, if there's no other way to acquire said item then that makes going for the bank feel very much like the wrong choice. Would require a replay to be sure, though. It's entirely possible the game makes up for it in some way.

 

 

 

Also, it sounds like the latest patch fixed that bug that made Jensen run into turrets when you load your game as well as that nasty loading screen crash that prevented people from completing the game.

[deanb]

Yeah as in that. Also I suspect that the game diverges a fair bit for the follow up missions given (Versalife path spoilers)

 

My Jensen got injected with Orchid. Without the antidote from the versalife vault he'd be dead. I guess you get something of a similar use through the bomb makers path.

 

Do you go to GARM?

 

On the patch side of things I've noticed that the lighting has messed up a bit. At first I didn't think much of it since I was in a new area and figured that darkened areas were part of newer level of difficulty as the game progressed, forcing you to use smart vision to navigate some vents n such. Then I went back to the bookshop and his office was near pitch black where previously it wasn't. I do also have a Nvidia Game Ready driver wanting to download atm too so that might be related.

I do dislike some of the volumetric lights in this game, when some people move in front of a flodlight during conversation it's really horrible.

[toxicitizen]

Yeah, you go to GARM and

Jensen gets injected with the Orchid but it has no effect on him (you can probably guess why). I just realized something I could've used the antidote for, though. Really interesting! Now I really wonder if there's a way around that item I mentioned earlier. I'll put in a separate spoiler tag because it's last mission/ending stuff.

So, on the last mission Miller gets injected (which wasn't immediately clear but the ending cutscene mentioned he died). I guess you need the antidote to save him. Also, the watchmaker's daughter gives you a device to disable the bombs she made, which is the item that came in handy. I wonder if it's even possible to get an optimal ending where you both save Miller and disable the bombs (as well as do another thing that initially seems to be at odds with disabling the bombs but I think really isn't? The game makes it look like you need to choose one or the other but after I did my choice I was able to run back and do the other, too).
 
My guess would be that it's possible to prevent the bombs from exploding without necessarily disabling them.

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by FLD

[Mr. GOH!]

Just found a Big Lebowski Easter Egg near the TF29 offices; there's a store called Sobchak Security, which is the name of Walter's shop in the movie.

[Mister Jack]

Anyone find this easter egg?

 

 

 

[deanb]

This game has a ton of easter eggs:

- Weighted Companion cube in the hipster-antique shop

- Pretty much every LP cover is based on a real one such as Buddy Holly, Beatles, Led Zepplin, AC DC etc.

- Copy of DXHR in the antique shop too

- Bunch of the snack and cereals are based on real life counter parts too. Though mainly american, so only super recognised the knock-off Kettle Chips.

- Some folks have also noted that some of the people sat to their computers are playing the original Deus Ex.

- I'm pretty sure I've seen the guy from Watch_dogs too. (says a lot I don't know the name of the guy from Watch_dogs )

- The radio occasionally plays the original Deus Ex theme too.

 

Oh and there's a chunk of references to the original Ion Storm games too, which given Bob Page n Manderly pop up a lot isn't hugely surprising. A lot pop up during the Versalife bank heist (there's also a computer with email sent prior to the Panchea stuff between Illuminati). Pretty sure there's a reference on an email about someones kid dying from the grey death too, which shouldn't be a thing at this point in time afaik. There's also one of the muscle statues from the end of DXHR and a Haylon suit in one of the vaults too, along with plans for "Heaven". DXHR items popping up aren't exactly "easter eggs" I'd guess.

 

There is somehow no Final Fantasy reference, which is interesting given the Knuckles thing which is a Sega title.

[toxicitizen]

- The radio occasionally plays the original Deus Ex theme too.

Didn't catch that one but I did hear this on the radio while I was infiltrating some apartment building.

 

 

It made me so happy I had to stop and message my friend who's as big a Deus Ex fan as I am.

[deanb]

Oh, yeah, it's that one. 

[toxicitizen]

Well, this is certainly interesting. 

 

 

If this is to be trusted (and considering that Jim mentioned the whole splitting into a trilogy thing months ago, I'm inclined to trust him and his source again), then it sounds like the next Deus Ex has indeed been in development for a little while now. Also, sounds like S-E Europe are a bunch of goddamned fucking idiots.

Edited September 2, 2016 by FLD