Apple

[Eleven]

It was some pretty integral parts, like the pinch-to-zoom functionality. That gesture just makes intuitive sense on a touch screen to accomplish that action, and is incredibly basic to the functioning of basically every app that even has a zoom feature on a touch screen. That's not just a bell or whistle.

 

Ah. And as I admitted i didn't follow it that much so details where lost. However IMO the trial was really about samsung's attempt to copy ios. I don't think they would have come after samsung if all it had was pinch to zoom. Windows phones i haven't used them, but they have pinch to zoom too most likely. So i guess if they now go ahead and sue everyone else with pinch to zoom, i would be wrong.

 

Maybe if samsung made touchwize like this, pinch to zoom would be a non issue for apple.

 

http://www.intomobile.com/2012/06/18/frog-design-reimagines-android-sharps-newest-aquos-smartphone/

Edited August 25, 2012 by eleven

[deanb]

Yeah there's was a fair few gut parts like the pinch to zoom. Part of the reason folks are having a go at the jury is because across the board (beyond iPad/Galaxy Tab stuff) they found Samsung to be in breach of "Apples" pinch-to-zoom stuff n all that, yet found Apple to breach fuck all of Samsungs technical patents. Which folks have hated on cos it meant the software patents were enforced but the..proper(?, whatever the fuck you'd call em) patents were ignored.

 

The video is running like shit for me (netbook) but from what I could gather through the jerkinees it's just a bunch of lockscreen n app drawer skins, which there exists trillions for Android. What's funny is that my old Sense n CM on wildfire had the kinda "swipe to unlock" stuff, but my current Samsung* (and my mums too) have a sort of circle you swish about (or you can do face unlock n such too).

 

As for the document of "make it like apple" I bet if you were to go through the files of every other phone manufacture they'll all have similar stuff. It's called market research, SWOT, etc. Bet you Apple have plenty eyeing up stuff like the Notification Shade, facebook n twitter integration, etc (I'm not quite up to date of all of iOSes latest 100% organically innovated features). If Samsung wanted to wholesale Apple they could have done, but there's tons and tons of parts of Touchwiz that just aren't anything alike to how iOS is and looks. My apps don't shake when I delete one, I don't slide to unlock, and maybe just something to do with my phone but there's tons of Widgets plastered up on first boot too. And as noted earlier back the Samsung app icons are all their own design, this kind of squished square look:

 

btw you guys seen some of the phones. It's not purely about trade dress (and if it is the jury was fucking blind)

The Samsung Captivate

 

The Samsung Continuum

 

 

 

Samsung Epic 4G

 

Samsung Galaxy S

 

Galaxy SII

 

*kinda realise I'm technically bias, but it's worth noting my current samsung would only be confused with an iPhone if you were 5 foot away and my phone a further 5 foot on from that. Oh n my mum has a Galaxy Ace, one of the phones in the trial.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

@eleven

 

There's plenty of stuff I think is legitimate and Apple rightfully: Touchwiz's icons for example. However, as others have noted, it's the more basic stuff that's worrying.

 

Is anyone else not surprised that the American jury sided with the American company?

[deanb]

What's funny is that earlier that day the South Korean courts had sided against both (though not on trade dress, but did include the bounce back patent).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19364875

 

The fines they both got is great. tens of thousands instead of $1billion. Shows a fair bit of comparison. (Of course in the UK we've just gotten in the habit of just not even letting them get to court)

 

Also I edited my previous post, maybe a bit too slowly.

[TheMightyEthan]

In the US case at least there aren't any fines, it's damages owed to Apple for violating their patents. The idea is that if Samsung had done it the proper way and licensed the technology from Apple they would have had to be paying Apple, so Apple is entitled to the money they should have been getting.

[deanb]

So now that the case is kinda wrapped up, the jurors are speaking. They really shouldn't. For those not up to speed they found that Samsung infringed and came up with the $1billion figure with 21 hours of deliberation over 3 days.

 

Up to now we've found out that:

• The jury awarded damages to Apple of ~$200K over the Galaxy Tab. A device they jury had found to not be infringing. Similar for the sum of $2million for the Intercept.
  
• The Jury Foreman is a patent holder himself and "wanted to send a message to the industry at large that patent infringing is not the right thing to do, not just Samsung". Which sounds like he was trying to push his own agenda as a patent holder than as a jury member on a Apple vs Samsung case.
  
• One of them is a projects manager with AT&T. The company that exclusively supplied iPhones in US.
  
• Pretty much all of them that have spoken up have said they'd decided early on that Samsung had infringed.
  

There's a lot of legal folks kinda confused on how the verdict was reached so fast, and how some devices that do look pretty much like iPads n such were deemed to not infringe on trade dress, but devices with keyboards n such did infringe.

 

I've a feeling Samsung may have been banking on an incompetent jury (They picked them as best I can tell, I don't know full legal stuff). Does help with the appeals if they can get the verdict overturned.

 

Anywho some reading material of analysis and interviews:

http://news.cnet.com...ror-speaks-out/

http://arstechnica.c...send-a-message/

http://www.groklaw.n...012082510525390

[TheMightyEthan]

This is why rather than having juries just give the total answer, courts should use special questions more.

 

Normal procedure is to say to the jury "determine if Samsung infringed and if so how much they owe Apple, and give us your answer" whereas special questions would have a list of specific questions, like:

 

Did the Galaxy Nexus infringe on Apple's patents?

Did the Galaxy Tab infringe on Apple's patents?

etc etc

 

and then have the judge determine what the legal consequences of those answers are.

[Thursday Next]

I think there's a very good case here for not having a trial by jury. A panel of expert judges with a lot of experience in patents would have been much better placed to make an impartial decision.

 

I'm fine with getting 12 random people in a room to say "This looks a hell of a lot like that and I would be confused as to who made what." not so much with the technical aspects of a 3G technology patent.

 

I get the impression that the jury were bored with this case and just blitzed through the questions to get it done and dusted. I don't think they were necessarily totally Apple biased despite stuff about "sending a message" I mean, they awarded Apple less than half of what they were asking for and even then, there's some inconsistencies with what they awarded as Dean pointed out.

[deanb]

Apple were asking $1.6billion and got $1.0billion. I think it's only lower because not all devices were found to infringe. Especially the Tab against the iPad.

[TheMightyEthan]

I read that Apple was asking for $2.5 billion.

[Thursday Next]

I read that Apple was asking for $2.5 billion.

 

As did I.

[deanb]

I'd read 1.6 but looking around seems it's 2.5. Maybe apple ;lowered their expectations somewhere?

[fuchikoma]

1.6b GBP ~= 2.5b USD

[deanb]

Or there's that

[Thursday Next]

I always think in $ when it comes to stuff like that. Part of the job really.

[deanb]

So first the funny:

 

Now to the iPhone 5:

• Sports a faster processor, as kinda expected (not like it'll be slower)
  
• Supports LTE finally (though this does mean HTC and Samsung patent lawyers are going to dive on it)
  
• Has a taller/wider 4" screen and can now display five rows of apps on the homescreen!
  
• Screen is still the same resolution, which maybe a bad long term move given it's only 10 ppi more than the One X n Galaxy Nexus.
  
• Has a new "Lightning" connector on the bottom meaning long term Apple customers can have the joy of buying adapters and Apple shareholders the joy of an extra sports car. It's over Thunderbolt too, which I don't think can be right cos Thunderbolt is nowhere near ubiquitous as USB. (but then again Apple port/Lightning is still nowhere near as ubiquitous as Micro-USB either)
  
• Apps will now sport a fancy black border because the SDK is built on the assumption that all devices are 3.5" unlike an SDK built to assume the app might not even be on a phone/tablet.
  
• New iTunes version.
  
• New iOS version. Comes with an Instragram thing. n "Passbook" cos that'll be useful for...no one. I don't get it. Supports China more (this is one of their big markets now)
  
• Siri now a bit better or something.
  
• No more Google Maps.
  

 

iPod is pretty much same but no LTE (or phone bits at all) and has a strap and "EarPods".

 

Their big thing (and the tagline is "biggest thing to happen to the iPhone) seems to be that it's no longer 4:3. Which is a really weak thing to make your big thing given there's a trillion n one widescreen phones and has been for ages. It's not a feature, it's a fix. They make money by getting people to buy movies n shows on iTunes. Movies and shows that come in a 16:9 format and their device can't display them correctly. It really broke their "vertical integration" n was an unApple like mistake and lack of polish that had remained for the past five versions of their phone (yeah..this is the sixth iPhone)

[Mister Jack]

Finally there's a new ipod touch. I've been wanting to upgrade to a larger capacity ever since I ran out of space on my current one, but was waiting for them to announce a new model rather than just getting the same kind I have now. This was back when 3GS was the best it got. I didn't want the Ipod Touch 4 or whatever they called it because it didn't have the dual core that the phone did, but it looks like this new model will.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Not done going through the news but what do you mean by Instagram thing? It has a built in social network for pictures? Or do you mean filtes, which would be more of a hipstamatic thing built in.

[Luftwaffles]

Honestly, it's not what I was expecting. I'm not an Apple fan, really, but I actually expected a bit more out of them for the 5 than just a bigger screen and another iOS update. I'll be in the market for a new phone in the next couple months and while I was previously considering whatever the 5 turned out to be, I'm not so sure anymore. This doesn't seems notably better than the 4, which isn't notably better than any Android alternatives.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

^That's what I keeping seeing people say online. TBH, I think the Lumia 920 blows this thing out of the water, and is definitely the most exciting phone coming out. Sure, it's an improvement, but it seems like Apple is playing catchup rather than innovating now. Steve Jobs never would have let that shit fly.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Faiblesse Des Sens

[madbassman39]

It really wasn't that big of a step forward for Apple. I always care about what Apple does, not because I like Apple products (using an iPhone for work after my WP7 feels like a major downgrade), but because Apple sells. When Apple sells, it curves the direction of tech, for better or worse. Example: Tablets, they were a thing before the iPad, people rarely used them, Apple released the iPad and now tablets are all the rage, which wouldn't have happened if the iPad never sold as well as it did. It doesn't matter how great the iPad is or isn't (it is pretty neat though), what matters really is that it sold well.

 

On another note: http://www.joystiq.com/2012/09/12/heres-what-real-racing-3-looks-like-on-iphone-5/

 

I don't care what you think of Apple or iPhones, that is fucking impressive to be coming off of a phone. Can other phones do this? There are a few, but that doesn't make the graphics look any less impressive.

[deanb]

Yeah other phones do that. "Real Racing 3 for Android is bloody great looking" was all the news a month back. Don't forget nvidia supply the Tegra platform for android devices.

 

@fds: "photostream", some photo sharing social network.

 

Question: did I miss it (wasn't following too close to non-iphone stuff) but did their Pandora killer get announced? Forgot about that rumour.

 

In general the iPhone 5 is playing catch up with stuff like widescreen and LTE. No NFC mind. It's built for existing Apple customers that have contracts ending, not much more. If you wanted widescreen n lte you could have gone elsewhere already.

[deanb]

So in case no one has heard, Apple Maps sucks. Big time. (Also if anyone wants a job Apple have posted up 7 software engineer positions for Maps)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19659736

http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/

 

It is generally recognised to not update to iOS6 if you use Google Maps a fair bit. (There's also no guarantee on Google releasing their own maps app, they've only promised and delivered on the Youtube app replacement)

 

Also Apple have fallen afoul of copying a Swedish train/clock firms clock design without license.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57517054-37/apple-accused-of-ripping-off-famous-swiss-clock-design/

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Did anyone else read the Verge's review of iOS6 and the iPhone 5? They point out that while both are great... they really do lack in a few areas compared to Android. To the point where they actually call the OS outdated. I think that Apple definitely makes some of the best hardware, but I really feel like they are falling behind with software. Steve Jobs would have never have let this happen.

 

Anyways, the rumor is that iOS Google Maps will be out by Christmas.

[Mister Jack]

Also Apple have fallen afoul of copying a Swedish train/clock firms clock design without license.

http://news.cnet.com...s-clock-design/

 

Oh the irony.