Strangelove Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Im never going to understand some people. We all know a physical item and a digital item arent the same thing. Would it be different if the game was on XBL and PSN for 60 and it DIDNT have the dlc in your download? Its technically the same thing. The dlc is made. Its done. Whether you have it on the disc or not doesnt matter at all. Youre preferring they lie to you by omitting the dlc from the disc. Thats the only difference that people really want. Maybe im a biased asshole who has no appreciation for money or maybe I like getting raped of my money, but a game with almost 60 characters(PS3) and 3 costumes for each is worth more than 60 dollars easily. What i got available to me(43 deep fully fledged characters that are half new and half SF4 characters that have been severely tweaked and have had major additions, shitloads of modes, amazing replay value, and just an all around well made game, is worth 60 dollars. Its a quality product all around. Well, except for the online. Capcom knows no one would buy an 80 or 90 dollar game. Its not gonna happen, but they also know that fans of theirs are going to expect and probably demand dlc additions. Costumes and characters sell. They HAVE to make them. So they thought ahead and covered their bases. Its a business, not a charity. It just feels that a lot of people are just delusional and want to be lied to. Thats NOT ok. Nobody wants to be lied to, that's ridiculous. The Mass Effect 3 day 1 squad mate DLC was off the disc, but was still crappy how things were handled. Capcom make that stuff during development, 2 loads of on disc costumes to be charged for, when Dead or Alive and Soul Calibur, far less popular fighting games, actually offer alternate costumes as normal on disc content. As for it being worth $60 to you, that's fine, I just don't like this massive amount of content being locked on the disc, costumes, colours and characters, I feel there has to be some sort of line drawn, just costumes or just characters maybe, not all together locked and charging $46 for them. But Soulcalibur and DoA are shitty games I dont care about. It doesnt affect me. They dont exist. They can have a thousand extra costumes for each character and it still doesnt clash with the quality of SfxT. Its like comparing 200000 piles of shit to one large pizza. Id rather pay 50 bucks for an overpriced pizza than for A LOT of shit. Not only that, but I dont even care for the costumes. Im not buying all or if any of them. If something doesnt affect me i dont care. Videogames get price drops so fast that everyone has a sweet spot for each game. Pay what you want for it. from 60 to 30 to zero. Its up to you. ANd DoA isnt really that crappy, but god knows SC is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangelove Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I think in a well-established genre like this it's easy to come up with a fairly "objective" measure of the game's value: compare it to the content of other games. How many characters does a game typically have vs how many this one has? Ask, "if this locked content didn't exist at all, and all that there was was the unlocked content, would it be worth it to me?" Not only that, but its also the quality of each character. If a game had 100 Ryu clones compared to 10 separate deep characters, my choice wouldnt be about quantity. The Tekken characters alone in SfxT have an insane amount of moves and mechanics. It borders on obsessive. They have moves most people will probably never use, but theyre still there just in case someone wants that option open to them. I think the game absolutely delivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 p.s: With regards to the whole "we hired in another team to work on DLC" Do people actually believe that? DLC is a money making business, when you've got a perfectly capable asset creation team already in place why would you create a second one? Hire more folks for the main team, but it's wasteful to have two separate teams doing the exact same tasks, and thus your'e squandering the potential profits of your DLC. Video games are a money making business. Also, the second team was working on the Vita version, I mentioned that. It was a generic remark, I wasn't responding to directly to anything you'd said or I'd have directly quoted you. Then again right as I posted you did say: Anyways, I think what would help you with DLC is transparency. Some studios have flat out said that a different team worked on DLC while another team was wrapping up a game to get it to gold, and others have stated they worked on it after the game went gold. If only every company was the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I think in a well-established genre like this it's easy to come up with a fairly "objective" measure of the game's value: compare it to the content of other games. How many characters does a game typically have vs how many this one has? Ask, "if this locked content didn't exist at all, and all that there was was the unlocked content, would it be worth it to me?" Not including the on-disk DLC SFxT destroys other games in the genre in terms of content and characters. SFxT= 42 characters. SC5= 30. MK9= who cares, it's not that high. Dead or Alive... do they even make those anymore? Either way definitely not 42. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 DOA5 is supposed to release this September. Haven't said how many characters AFAIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Really, if it's already on the disc, then calling it DLC (downloadable content) is a misnomer no matter how you slice it. If Capcom insists on pulling this stunt repeatedly, we need a new name for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 "Additional paid content." Anyways, I agree. DLC is just a buzz word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffles Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 "Donation-based Lines of Code" Then we can keep the DLC acronym while recognizing it for what it usually is. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Yeah, "DLC" is just used as a generic word for any add-on that doesn't really qualify as an "expansion pack". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Probably because if they called it "pay to play" or something like that people wouldn't put up with that shit, but when it's already on the disc that is basically what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Yeah, "DLC" is just used as a generic word for any add-on that doesn't really qualify as an "expansion pack". I've been hearing more and more people mistakenly using the word "DLC" to mean "anything downloadable". Anything from Episodes from Liberty City/Shivering Isles-style expansion packs to entire games downloadable from PSN/XBLA. I don't even know why, considering how shitty Capcom palette-swap, already-on-disc-but-pay-to-unlock costume "DLC" is being unfairly lumped with Shivering Isles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangelove Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 The costumes aren't palette swaps. One set of costumes are other costumes from the opposite game(a SF character wearing a Tekken character costume and vice versa, and not all costumes are from characters in that game, theyre all new) and the other set of costumes are original. Plus, 12 characters. Im tired of defending this Capcom thing, but Im not ok with inaccuracies either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I consider DLC to be any non-standalone downloadable add-on (there's some overlap with "expansion pack"). It does bug the crap out of me though when people refer to standalone DD titles as DLC. Without any other context though DLC does imply to me something smaller scale than a real "expansion." Like a new side quest chain rather than a more major world expansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 The costumes aren't palette swaps. One set of costumes are other costumes from the opposite game(a SF character wearing a Tekken character costume and vice versa, and not all costumes are from characters in that game, theyre all new) and the other set of costumes are original. Plus, 12 characters. Im tired of defending this Capcom thing, but Im not ok with inaccuracies either. I actually wasn't even thinking about SFxT. I had that Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike PSN/XBLA re-release in mind, where they literally did charge money for palette-swaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangelove Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Yeah, that was fucking retarded. I never bought any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 The other big sticking point here for me is the $60 price point. I usually buy games for $20. I have actually bought more DLC off steam than anything else because they're in the habit of heavily discounting DLC when games are older and selling a big package so that you can get the "complete" game for usually around $12-20. I just did that with Civ V. If DLC is ever to catch on with the majority of gamers instead of being a niche product they're going to have to get much better about adjusting the pricing in order with the game's retail pricing. ME2 is a perfect example of this right now. I'm not going to spend $20 on the game and another $50 on DLC. How many people who buy SSFIV now are going to pay an extra $20 for more costumes when the full game was only $20? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 The other big sticking point here for me is the $60 price point. I usually buy games for $20. I have actually bought more DLC off steam than anything else because they're in the habit of heavily discounting DLC when games are older and selling a big package so that you can get the "complete" game for usually around $12-20. I just did that with Civ V. If DLC is ever to catch on with the majority of gamers instead of being a niche product they're going to have to get much better about adjusting the pricing in order with the game's retail pricing. ME2 is a perfect example of this right now. I'm not going to spend $20 on the game and another $50 on DLC. How many people who buy SSFIV now are going to pay an extra $20 for more costumes when the full game was only $20? DLC is a niche product? What? I think you're trying to apply your life to what everyone else does. Publishers sell less games at $20 than they do at $60. Launch is a big thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 DLC is a niche product because everything I've ever read shows it only get's sold to ~25% of customers who bought the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 25% seems fairly large to me. Especially in terms of money made off of it. Niche in my eyes is much smaller. Under 10%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 How about we say "a minority of gamers". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 How about we say "a minority of gamers". Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Extra Credits has a pretty good show today about the Mass Effect 3 DLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I don't know that I believe the line that most DLC is content that would not have made it into the game otherwise. He also states that pushing it earlier means that it sells more and I can't argue with him on that but isn't that furthering the point that DLC is just exploitative of people? If the content was truly worthwhile wouldn't that mean that people would seek it out? Isn't the fact that DLC is forgotten if it's long after the release speak to how little value it actually has other than capitalizing on overexcited launch adopters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 How is it exploitative? Why is that word being used at all? Consumers can choose to buy it or not buy it. They don't need it at all. DLC is definitely content that wouldn't make it into the game otherwise. This is due to release schedules and things like that. Obviously, they could just delay the game and include it, but this way they get the game out on time. This makes the publisher happy, and so does the additional revenue from DLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 DLC is definitely content that wouldn't make it into the game otherwise. This is due to release schedules and things like that. But the schedules have the DLC ready for launch, so how is that not content that wouldn't make it in the game otherwise? The only reason the content isn't in the game is because the developer/publisher chose to not include it. Not because they didn't have the time to put it all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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