deanb Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Yep still confused. We are saying that moral choices in Mass Effect are not based on the consequence but the 'attitude' of the player, but earlier you said: Coming to the end of the second Mass Effect you know which is the good choice n which is bad.The fact you get told off right away makes it pretty obvious that it won't pan out so well. And I don't think BioWare are telling you off (for the most part, they've always been about 'power' to the player). Then, later, you said something contrary to the idea of the consequences being labelled as good/bad, which led me to think you had (rightly) reconsidered. I'm guessing you're meaning this?: Didn't ignore it. It in fact kinda proves several of our points that attributing a point/stat scale on choices within games is just retarded. Other games would have had you free her, and she turns out to be a killer. And that would be it. but ME sticks a "scoring" on the action to. Presenting actions, regardless of potential reaction, as black and white, +1/-1. But yeah, it will more than likely pan out bad. You got Paragon for rescuing council, renegade for letting them die. Come ME2 if you let them die you may as well of blown them up yourself the way folks react to that. Whereas saving them in the paragon option you can even be a good enough boy to be reinstated as a SPECTRE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I guess we'll have to see, but BioWare games have never really punished you for being renegade. It even halves the helicopter's armour if you jam that electric spanner thing in that guy's back during the Archangel recruitment mission in ME2 (and I think you possibly get a few other combat advantages with renegade interrupts at later points). I'd like to imagine that even if you succeed as a renegade, the game will make you consider your own humanity and what lengths you've gone to...but that's hefty stuff to expect from them (and something made as a 'space opera'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgi Duke of Frisbee Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I'd like to imagine that even if you succeed as a renegade, the game will make you consider your own humanity and what lengths you've gone to...but that's hefty stuff to expect from them (and something made as a 'space opera'). The term 'space opera' has lost all meaning. Every fucking movie, TV show, comic book, novel and video game set in space has been labelled as a space opera. It's like the setting alone designates it as operatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 The term 'space opera' has lost all meaning. Every fucking movie, TV show, comic book, novel and video game set in space has been labelled as a space opera. It's like the setting alone designates it as operatic. Can't say I've really noticed, but a lot of the more mainstream stuff does tend to fall into that category. It becomes easily digestible, grand narrative stuff rather than a complex exploration of an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotChops Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I've been uber-busy for the last six weeks, so I'm bummed that I've missed most of this thread; especially because I'm a big Mass Effect fan. What I'd add is that I don't believe Drew Karpyshyn and the other ME writers view the morality of the galaxy in such a black/white way -- it's the gameplay that causes that. For example, if you read the ME prequel book, the writer strongly implies that the council manipulated the human ambassador into enlisting Captain Anderson for a Spectre mission with Saren because they knew it would be a fiasco that they could use to justify keeping humans out of the Spectres and off the council. There are also examples in the Codec and the games where they say that the council never really liked the Batarians, so they purposely allowed conflict to break out between them and humanity. Likewise, the council always wanted to expand into the Traverse, but they didn't want to get their hands dirty. Again, they allowed (or rather sent) humanity to suffer the consequences of that action. It's only in the game that every anti-council choice is made out to be a bad thing. It would seem that in the writers' minds, choosing humanity over the council is a gray area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgi Duke of Frisbee Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 The term 'space opera' has lost all meaning. Every fucking movie, TV show, comic book, novel and video game set in space has been labelled as a space opera. It's like the setting alone designates it as operatic. Can't say I've really noticed, but a lot of the more mainstream stuff does tend to fall into that category. It becomes easily digestible, grand narrative stuff rather than a complex exploration of an idea. I agree with that, but it really pisses me off when people call movies like Moon 'space operas'. That movie was singular in its ideas, and gave a thrilling examination of genetics gone awry. It was one of the most provoking movies I saw last year. Yet it somehow gets classified as an opera? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 It did? First I'd ever heard of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Whereas saving them in the paragon option you can even be a good enough boy to be reinstated as a SPECTRE. Nitpicky, I know, but even if you let the Council die you can still be reinstated as a Spectre as long as you picked Anderson to be the human Councilor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 When it's in the paragraph on loading up a new game, you can tell making sure it wasn't a +/- thing was one of the core philosophies in the games production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted March 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 When it's in the paragraph on loading up a new game, you can tell making sure it wasn't a +/- thing was one of the core philosophies in the games production. Yoink! *saved* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 "Was one have the core" doesn't fit.... so I'm unsure what you're saving? Also slightly off-topic. Steam screenshot thing is real handy. I only have FRAPS open when I intend to capture stuff, but this is good for on the fly stuff. It's like a camcorder/camera on you is only when you intend to, but a mobile phone is good enough for when those on the fly moments happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted March 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I meant I saved the image. I don't like quoting images just for the sake of it, so I quoted your text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Ah I see. I assumed it was one of those "quote it so when he fixes that glaring spelling error it's there for eternity" type thing. If I'm quoting an image without wanting to copy the image, then I just stick in: witcherscreenshot.jpg Which get's it across well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted March 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Pfft, too much effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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