Violence in games

[HotChops]

When I was a kid, I loved Mortal Kombat. As I grew older I loved the Grand Theft Auto games too.

 

But after watching this video:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/x-rays-and-mortal-kombat/711458

 

I found myself disgusted; not disgusted like, "OMG that's terrible and that game should be banned!" but rather more like:

 

Crunching, gushing sounds? Face eating? Eww. No thanks.

 

Merely a year ago I was thinking about buying this game when it came out, but seeing it now... and especially hearing it... I'm really turned off.

 

For years, "experts" have claimed that games desensitize people to violence and even make them crave it.

 

I believe that I am living proof of the complete opposite. I seem less and less interested in violence these days. I still play GTAIV when I'm feeling really sinister and angry, and then I laugh when I drive on the sidewalk and mow down dozens of people. But when I set someone on fire in that game and watch them flail around until they're roasting on the ground, I feel a little queasy.

 

It's a bit hard to explain, because the line between exciting action and gratuitous violence is pretty thin for me. I just can't help but notice that I'm less and less interested in games like Mortal Kombat and Bulletstorm (even from a guilty-pleasure, naughty-fun way).

 

What about you guys?

[excel_excel]

I don't mind it, its just very over the top like Mortal Kombat has always been, and I'm looking forward to it. That said gratuitous violence has never really attracted me to a game. Maybe Manhunt 2, but then it was delayed in Europe and I lost all interest in it.

 

The more I think about we've become desensitized to violence in games. They can pretty much throw everything up in games now. Look at how ridiculously violent Black Ops was at points, with knifes being plunged into people's throats from behind and all.

Edited March 9, 2011 by excel_excel

[Mr W Phallus]

I find it quite funny, mostly the idea that someone would ever bother making those animations. The violence is so ridiculously over-the-top that I don't feel like it has a connection to real world violence.

 

The other day, when returning from a night out, we passed someone who had been hit by a bus whilst riding their bike. There was no blood or gore, he was just laid there in a foetal position not moving. That was hundred times more disturbing than this video, or any video-game I've ever played in fact.

 

(It kinda sounds like I just walked past the guy and ignored him - he was being looked after by police and ambulance crew.)

 

I don't think I've ever been attracted to a game by gratuitous violence, but it has never put me off either. Having said that, I think Gears of War provides an example of the effective use of gratuitous violence. Executions and chainsawing people are not satisfying because of some primal desire I have to stamp on someone's head or cut someone in half but because they are essentially rubbing your victory into your opponents face. It's like saying 'Look at me, I beat you and I have all the time in the world to finish you off'. Other violence in the game acts as a feedback of your skill. Headshots are satisfying because the sound of your opponents head exploding signals, aurally, that you pulled off a difficult shot. (Compare this to a headshot in Halo where the only signal you get is a small symbol in the corner of the screen (unless your have Grunt Birthday Party on of course), or with TF2 where headshots are accompanied by the critical hit sound.) Similarly landing the perfect shot with an explosive weapon or the shotgun in GoW causes the enemy to explode, signalling that you landed it perfectly. I rarely (if ever) find myself revelling in the actual violence at hand, however.

[Cyber Rat]

You're getting too old for games HotChops.

[TheMightyEthan]

The other day, when returning from a night out, we passed someone who had been hit by a bus whilst riding their bike. There was no blood or gore, he was just laid there in a foetal position not moving. That was hundred times more disturbing than this video, or any video-game I've ever played in fact.

This. Violence in games has never bothered me at all. This past summer I was driving home from a meeting in a nearby town with my grandfather (I was interning at his law office) and this couple on a motorcycle passed us, neither wearing helmets (which I actually commented on as they passed us). About 5 miles up the road we come across a wreck where apparently somebody in a car had pulled out across the road in front of the motorcycle. We were the first people on the scene. The people in the car were fine but both of the people on the motorcycle were semi-conscious and laying on their backs on the ground, moaning and trying feebly to get up, broken glass and blood everywhere. Nothing in a game has ever bothered me, but that was really disturbing; I felt weird (can't think of a better way to articulate it) for a couple of days after that.

[CorgiShinobi]

I think video games do desensitize us to violence, but that would be fictional violence, a.k.a. cinema and games.

 

I'm sure when we played our first few violent video games, there were some moments that made us feel a bit uneasy. Now we've come to realize, as Phallus said, that the violence in video games is merely a symbol of skill or progression. Take Killzone 3 for example. You can simply "Melee" someone and get your 150 points. However, there are "Brutal Melee" attacks that are more cinematic in nature.

 

Again, as Phallus said, it's a "In Your Face" kinda moment. You were able to get near them, and now you kill the character/avatar in a more brutal fashion than a bullet or hitting them with your gun.

 

Now, if someone is playing video games to actively seek out violence, well, I personally would say to stay far away from that individual. Games don't instill violence, but I still think games can be detrimental for those with anger and abusive tendencies. It's like they're festering those negative thoughts and emotions.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Atomsk88

[Mercurial]

I've never been bothered by gore or death real or otherwise.

Probably cause I watched so many emergency room shows when I was like seven.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Hakidia

[Cyber Rat]

[WTF]

You really can't take MK seriously. There's a total lack of suspension of disbelief. Unless one feels that 3 skulls and four ribcages are normal. The new game is different but it's still surreal. Games are always in a controlled environment regardless and so suspension of disbelief can be toyed with and very rarely do they get to disturbing levels.

 

Real world violence is not controlled like in a film or a game, it happens and leaves you dumbstruck and quiet. This is why I really want an end to 24-7 news channels showing us scenes of carnage over and over again. Because that 'News' will desensitize us more than any film or game ever can.

[Strangelove]

Its weird, but i actually enjoy violent videogames now as an adult than i ever did as a kid. I was the one kid that wasnt impressed by mk in the nineties. I stuck to sf2. Mks violence just wasnt creative or fun in any way. Eternal champions had way better fatalities.

nowadays i love dead space for many reasons, the creative gore being one of them. People make fun of god of war a lot, but the violence in that game feels great. Its not about how it looks or sounds, its about how it feels. Gow just has a great feel in its violence. Ripping off helios head just felt damn good. I dont know. I wish i could explain myself better.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Strangelove

[WTF]

@Strangelove:Maybe it's the execution? Or maybe you need to relieve stress.

 

I do admit that God of War did take violence to a different level. Not to mention while Kratos isn't well liked, his enemies are usually far worse though it is sort of fitting within Greek Mythos.

[P4: Gritty Reboot]

I usually turned the blood off as a kid, though Half-Life's skulls and chicken bones that flew out of deceased humans cracked me up. Now, as long as it's done tastefully or it's just obviously over-the-top, I can enjoy it.

[Johnny]

It's dumb. It's gory. It's over-the-top. It's unrealistic. It's also the point.

 

As far as I'm concerned, stuff like this can be incredibly cathartic at times.

[Little Pirate]

You think that's bad?

 

Or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHP0X6pp5OI

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Its weird, but i actually enjoy violent videogames now as an adult than i ever did as a kid. I was the one kid that wasnt impressed by mk in the nineties. I stuck to sf2. Mks violence just wasnt creative or fun in any way. Eternal champions had way better fatalities.

nowadays i love dead space for many reasons, the creative gore being one of them. People make fun of god of war a lot, but the violence in that game feels great. Its not about how it looks or sounds, its about how it feels. Gow just has a great feel in its violence. Ripping off helios head just felt damn good. I dont know. I wish i could explain myself better.

 

God of War 3 was surprisingly graphic and I really thought it played into Kratos' character and the theme of that title.

[RockyRan]

I don't mind violence when it's done well and is appropriate to the mood that the developers want to portray.

 

Unfortunately, 99% of developers don't do violence properly.

 

Take BioShock, for instance. I'm loving the game (I'm playing through it right now for the first time), but the amount of blood in the game is stupid. The way blood is portrayed in the game (the blood that is spattered on the floor and walls) is comically inaccurate, looking a lot more like half-melted jell-o than actual blood. And the sheer AMOUNT of it is also ridiculous. Entire walls spattered with it, in ways that are impossible should those spatters have been made by accident. It's not grotesque, it's comical.

 

Another game I like to cite is Assassin's Creed 1 (can't comment on the rest seeing as I haven't played them). In the beginning of the game there's a cutscene where Altair stabs a traitor with a sword, and blood spouts off his body as if Altair had just stabbed a pressure pipe. Then it proceeds to completely stop after 2 seconds (as if the pipe had been shut off) and falls over, instantly dead. It's so over-the-top that it's funny, but that funny turns to sad when you realize Ubi was actually going for a serious tone.

 

I turn down violence when the game gives me option to, but not because I have a personal distaste for gore, it's because developers can't do gore worth shit in the gaming industry. They always, always go over the top, and almost always turn out a comically bad result. I don't mind it when a a game parodies this gore (like in TF2), but when a game attempts to make a serious tone and then proceeds to splatter red goo all over the walls and have people spout off 9 gallons of said goo from their bodies like a drinking fountain? Come on, now.

[Strangelove]

Its hard to do regular amounts of blood in videogames because if you do anything less than having it spray or gack up, no one notices it. Fps games are too fast to notice a small wound and third person games move too fast. Take ninja gaiden sigma 2 for instance. People were convinced the blood was completely replaced with purple mist, but it wasnt. It was still there but they toned it down.

if you take out blood completely you also take away the feeling of killing or wounding a person. It looses all realism.

[RockyRan]

Its hard to do regular amounts of blood in videogames because if you do anything less than having it spray or gack up, no one notices it. Fps games are too fast to notice a small wound and third person games move too fast. Take ninja gaiden sigma 2 for instance. People were convinced the blood was completely replaced with purple mist, but it wasnt. It was still there but they toned it down.

if you take out blood completely you also take away the feeling of killing or wounding a person. It looses all realism.

 

I'd much, MUCH rather have no blood than cartoony blood, because contrary to popular belief, when someone gets shot blood does not splatter all over the room like water balloon being shot. No violence may not feel "realistic", but at least it doesn't feel "unrealistic AND comically cartoony".

[SomTervo]

Fiction, no matter what format or medium it's in, reflects reality. And in reality there is violence. However, in fiction we see just this- a reflection. Sure, sometimes it'll be so realistic it's shocking, but there won't be the emotional impact of violence that is what makes it so awful in real life. The only time fiction really captures violence, which I've only really seen done well in film, is when it adds this emotional element, a character we know or understand, and the consequences of reverting to animalistic actions. (The end of Shane Meadows' This Is England is a pretty great example of that).

 

Imho when we talk about violence in games or films or books, I don't think it's the same as violence in real life. It's not honest, true aggression that is being experienced in a game. I think aggression is violence; the emotional and destructive element that someone imposes on another. Not necessarily a physical action that is destructive. A word alone, in the right manner and context, can be violent. More violent than someone beating someone else with a baseball bat in GTA.

 

In games all the player is doing is manipulating an obviously contrived simulation in order to achieve a goal and be entertained. There's no basic, animal aggression there. It looks nasty, but violence is all about the intention, not necessarily the act. As Atomski said, you Brutal Melee someone in KZ3- you're just racking up points. You haven't got anything against that person on a human level. The human level, destroying a bond between two beings, is violence.

Edited March 15, 2011 by kenshi_ryden

[TheMightyEthan]

I agree with Rocky Ryan. It's much more realistic for there to be little or no blood, especially if we're talking about shooters.

[Mercurial]

Attempts for emotional reaction for violence never works on me. The soldiers in homefront I have nothing agaisnt. Hell for their entire life they are taught to hate Americans and they're just doing their job. Honestly if they wanted emotional reaction they should have let you kill innocents in it. Maybe I am just a heartless sadist eh?

[SomTervo]

Games that spring to my mind for decent gore are the Call of Duty series, and the Max Payne games. I remember in the first couple of CoD games games all you'd get is a puff of red coloured dust. It's all you need. In Max Payne the only blood would be a spurt from a nasty wound, which would go onto any surface it hit. Wasn't OTT or anything. And really effective.

 

The GTA games are surprisingly okay for blood, save the loads that spurt out of severed limbs in Vice City and San Andreas. GTAIV is relatively tame; though I suppose Euphoria makes up for the lack of cartoony violence. Euphoria is really an amazing thing, I can't wait to see what it evolves into to help realism in games.

 

Attempts for emotional reaction for violence never works on me. The soldiers in homefront I have nothing agaisnt. Hell for their entire life they are taught to hate Americans and they're just doing their job. Honestly if they wanted emotional reaction they should have let you kill innocents in it. Maybe I am just a heartless sadist eh?

 

If you're replying to my comment, you don't really get what I was saying. (Apologies if you weren't.) I was saying it's when you have an emotional investment in a fictional object, be it a character or a thing or an idea, and there are aggressive acts upon it. That's violence, more than physical acts. The companion cube being cast into the furnace in Portal was a violent act. It was the emotional meaning behind it, not the act itself. In Homefront those soldiers may be justified, or they may not, but that's got nothing to do with your emotions, unless an emotional attachment is worked into the story.

Edited March 15, 2011 by kenshi_ryden

[Mercurial]

I wasn't.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

I found that GTA4 got really graphic if you slowed down the pace and actually watched what happens when people die. People crawl around and get shot realistically and whatnot. The crawling is really creepy, as you don't have to put people out of their misery and you can let them die slow. Euphoria at that point was already at a really high level I just think people were too busy doing so much at once and doing it so fast that they didn't notice how solid it was even before RDR

[RockyRan]

I found that GTA4 got really graphic if you slowed down the pace and actually watched what happens when people die. People crawl around and get shot realistically and whatnot. The crawling is really creepy, as you don't have to put people out of their misery and you can let them die slow. Euphoria at that point was already at a really high level I just think people were too busy doing so much at once and doing it so fast that they didn't notice how solid it was even before RDR

 

See, I think it's details like this that truly give meaning to violence rather than "here's a bunch of blood. OMG SO SRS NAO". If a dev wants to make a serious tone, juvenile exaggerations of violence involving decapitations with gratuitous physics (heads FLYING OFF at break-neck (heh) speeds, etc.) and blood spraying everywhere actually does the exact opposite. What you mentioned (slow, agonizing crawling across the floor before death) not only avoids juvenile violence, but also gives weight to violence because it's no longer strictly about scripted animatronics that shut down as soon as their HP hits zero. The enemy, even though for all intents and purposes is "dead" gameplay-wise, still displays feeling as a result of violence.