Batman Arkham Blank

[TheMightyEthan]

I just beat it too.  I'd still give it a solid 7.  I'd say it's definitely a step down from Arkham City, but in terms of gameplay/combat it is better than Arkham Asylum was.  I don't think I ran into as many bugs as other people, that one bug I posted about earlier fixed itself.

[toxicitizen]

I'm with Hot Heart. The game is a complete mess and I hope they don't get another shot at the series. Just leave it to those who can do it well.

 

And having replayed Asylum recently, I couldn't disagree with you more, Ethan. Asylum is a better game than Origins. Sure, it's rougher and doesn't benefit from the gameplay improvements City brought to the table. But on a functional level, it just works better. A lot of stuff in Origins feels like it's there just because it had to be. It feels a lot like AC Revelations to me. It does the exact same thing without putting any thought into why it was there or what made it work in the first place.

 

And the changes they did make didn't seem to work, for the most part. At this point, I think almost everyone is in agreement that they fucked up the combat in a subtle way. I fired up Arkham City last night to do the Halloween Calendar Man date and just for the hell of it I got into a fight and it just felt so much better.

 

To give you an idea, I replayed Asylum last week. Played on hard and all my combat skills from playing tons of Arkham City over the summer kicked right back in. None of the fights gave me any trouble whatsoever and I beat all the challenge rooms in a single day. But I have almost 30 hours logged into Origins according to Steam and I still occasionally get my ass kicked by some random crime-in-progress.

Edited November 1, 2013 by FLD

[CorgiShinobi]

I'm still somewhere in the 6.0 - 7.0 range.

 

Last night I stopped playing after the gamr froze on me. About half the time the game won't register when I want to start gliding after fast traveling. It's a good thing you can't die from falling, or else I wouldn't bother with fast travel. Then the Mad Hatter segment would have been cool, except I was falling off the railing sections, which are objects Asylum and City that never allowed Batman to fall off. Then I respawn and I'm stuck in a corner scared that I'm stuck. Luckily the checkpoint resolved my issue.

 

There are moments that begin to redeem the shortcomings, but the combat, no matter what, is borked. Countering has definitely been tweaked, and I'm not a fan of the multiple counter methods. I should not be having any trouble with a group of seven thugs. And has the Ultimate Stun worked for anyone else? The one where you swing your cape three times. You're suppose to use that to stun the larger enemies, but it never works for me.

[Alex Heat]

I think I speak for every right minded person when I say Rocksteady should make Arkham Beyond next.

 

God dammit, I've waited long enough for my quality Batman Beyond game.

[TheMightyEthan]

I must conclude I'm just better at games than all of you.  The combat is tweaked, sure, and doesn't flow as well as in City, but I still never have problems with random fights.  The only fights that ever give me trouble are when those big giant dudes that you have to stun and beatdown are in the fight.  Even knife counters I succeed at probably 80% of the time.  Like, I get that it's not as good, but I don't see how you can have been playing the game for 30 hours and still be having trouble with it.

 

*Edit* - Super stuns usually work for me, but I save the big dudes for last so I don't have other dudes coming up to hit me from behind, so that may make it easier.

 

Ground takedowns are definitely borked.

Edited November 2, 2013 by TheMightyEthan

[Hot Heart]

I only have a problem when something fucks up. Like a ground takedown or a counter doesn't trigger, when you cape-stun and Batman throws a punch into thin air, or when you have to hammer attack after a takedown animation because it's so goddamn finicky with the timing and doesn't always trigger. Or there are occasions where I use the disruptor beforehand and it doesn't actually work...

 

Once you have the shock gloves though, it all becomes trivial.

[toxicitizen]

Well, the fights that do give me trouble are the ones with tons of enemies of all varieties, not just any trivial fights. And, to be fair, I think the main reason I sometimes still struggle with those is because of how much I'm still used to how combat felt in AA and AC. My timing and instincts are now just a bit off to the point where a single mistake can throw me off my rhythm entirely. I can no longer just "get in the zone" and pull off crazy combos without thinking like I used to. I always end up missing a counter or not dodging fast enough because those moves used to be trivial for me and now my window to pull them off has been changed in a subtle way.

 

Then there's the actual fuck ups Hot Heart mentioned where moves won't connect for some fucking reason. All things combined, it just makes for a frustrating experience, imho. And the way the shock gloves just fucking break combat is ridiculous but that's another issue entirely. But honestly, I think this sums it all up nicely:

 

The combat is tweaked, sure, and doesn't flow as well as in City

That's a pretty core aspect to have screwed up right there. I mean, it is called the freeflow combat system, after all.

[TheMightyEthan]

Well I've never claimed it's as good as Arkham City, just that it doesn't seem as broken to me as other people seem to think it is.  I still think the combat is better than Arkham Asylum.  The game as a whole, however, is not.

[toxicitizen]

I guess I just don't see how it could possibly be better when it simply doesn't work as well. I'll take a less refined combat system over a broken one.

Also, GMG currently has a 25% voucher that works on the season pass. Knocks 5 bucks off the price. Tempting...
 

[Hot Heart]

The problem with the season pass is that it's nearly all costumes, and I don't enjoy the game enough to want to play it again/more with just those.

[TheMightyEthan]

I guess I just don't see how it could possibly be better when it simply doesn't work as well. I'll take a less refined combat system over a broken one.

I feel like it does work better though.  Not as well as City, but better than Asylum did.

[toxicitizen]

The problem with the season pass is that it's nearly all costumes, and I don't enjoy the game enough to want to play it again/more with just those.

 

I'm a sucker for costumes. Playing AC in that Batman Beyond costume was way more fun than I expected. And I shit on the game a lot but I'm still enjoying it so I'm definitely going to be doing NG+ and at least attempt I am The Night at some point. 

 

I feel like it does work better though.  Not as well as City, but better than Asylum did.

Can you elaborate? I'm curious what makes you think so because I just don't see it. Asylum and City feel pretty similar to me, at least mechanically speaking. And that's also where I feel Origins went wrong.

[TheMightyEthan]

It's been a while since I played Asylum, so I can't be really specific. I just remember thinking it didn't flow as well as City did, and while Origins also doesn't flow as well as City it flows better than Asylum.

 

If they ever get the Asylum GFWL keys working on Steam like they say they're going to I'll replay it and be able to give a better explanation.

[CorgiShinobi]

There's another patch for my PS3 copy right now, so I'm hoping it fixes some issues.

 

Last night I was getting stuck in level geometry and the Deadshot side mission confirmed to me that the enemy AI is very mediocre. As far as combat, Asylum is better than this game. I can go ahead and pop it back in if need be, but this is coming from a guy who Platinum'd the game. Right now, I'm going from states of "awesome" to "dammit" in Origins.

 

Literally, I go from a S Rank Crime in Progress with a x63 streak to getting my ass kicked around by four guys because the countering is off either by stuttering or, what I'm beginning to see, enemy AI being buggy. I've had guys get stuck in cars and rooms running in place. I've actually learned that Ground Takedowns have a limited window in Origins and why they "aren't working." Still, I'm finding moments where Batman isn't locking to a specific enemy, like say one behind him holding a gun.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Atomsk88

[TheMightyEthan]

Literally, I go from a S Rank Crime in Progress with a x63 streak to getting my ass kicked around by four guys because the countering is off either by stuttering or, what I'm beginning to see, enemy AI being buggy. I've had guys get stuck in cars and rooms running in place.

I do want to reiterate that when I say Origins' combat is better than Asylum's, I have not encountered any problems of this sort. I can see how that would frustrate people.

[Hot Heart]

Continuing the conversation from here, so as not to begin the process of clogging up another thread (I think those posts can stay where they are).

 

I would love to see Rocksteady do a No Man's Land-style game. Now they've got people like Robin and Nightwing, it would be cool to use them a bit more as well. Break Gotham up into various hubs (sort of like Assassin's Creed's cities) and have different factions fighting it out over territory. Feature some sort of 'city rebuilding' elements, stuff like getting Poison Ivy to grow food for people, getting the power back online, etc.

 

Also, it must feature Batman telling Superman to

 

Looking back at Origins, I think it might've been cool if they'd started with Bruce Wayne actually trying to enjoy Christmas. Have him, at a party at the start of the game that gets attacked and from which he has to escape, so he feels it was a failure on his part and why he absolutely throws himself into the mission. Given how big budget games tend to love more scripted moments, I don't think the Arkham games use them so much (or at least, on a smaller scale or not so overtly). Outside of the "Oh, Batman's been drugged again" there was only really the Firefly bridge bit in Origins, which was fairly OK.

[TheMightyEthan]

Looking back at Origins, I think it might've been cool if they'd started with Bruce Wayne actually trying to enjoy Christmas. Have him, at a party at the start of the game that gets attacked and from which he has to escape, so he feels it was a failure on his part and why he absolutely throws himself into the mission.

Holy shit, that would have been a fantastic beginning.

 

I also think a No Man's Land setting would be great. It would also encourage them to get away from the One-Single-Night type setting.

[TheMightyEthan]

Okay, I just went back and played some challenges in Akrham Asylum so I could give a more informed opinion, and I still maintain that Origins flows better.  The inability to counter thrown objects in Asylum is just too big of a momentum breaker.

[Hot Heart]

Man, what?! You batarang those guys before they even get a chance to throw anything!

[toxicitizen]

Yeah, that's just you sucking. The game is mechanically sound. Like I said, less refined combat system > broken combat system.

 

Also, I love that opening idea. Arkham City had a great opening (the Bruce Wayne bit, not the Catwoman one) and while I thought the cutscenes in Origins were great, it was nowhere near as good of an intro.

 

Would be great if next-gen the series gets a proper open-world. These are kinda small, they don't feel like open worlds so much as hubs for the story levels. They have more in common with the castle from Super Mario 64 than they do with say, Liberty City. Also, Blüdhaven DLC where you play as Nightwing. Make it happen!

[TheMightyEthan]

Like I said, less refined combat system > broken combat system.

And like I've said, I would agree with you except in my experience Origin's combat system isn't broken (except for ground takedowns).

 

And the throwing guys were just an example of how the combat doesn't flow as well, not the sole reason. And yes, most of the time you take them out before they get a chance to throw the thing. That doesn't take the chance that if they do throw it (because they were off screen so you didn't see them or whatever) it really interrupts the flow.

 

*Edit* - Maybe for some weird reason it's just been working better on my computer, I don't know (I definitely haven't seen the kinds of glitches Atomsk88 was talking about), but the way it has played in the 27 hours I've spent in it has not meshed with what you guys have been describing.

Edited November 3, 2013 by TheMightyEthan

[toxicitizen]

The thing is, just because you haven't experienced those issues doesn't mean they don't exist. It happens. Some people are luckier with buggy games. All it means is your opinion that Origins' combat isn't broken is based on incomplete information. Can we at least agree on that much?

[TheMightyEthan]

NO! MY SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE IS THE ONLY VALID ONE!

 

Really though, I think it was only when Atomsk88 described specific glitches that I hadn't been seeing that I realized that there might actually be different things happening to each of us, and that it was more than our subjective opinions about the same objective experiences. So yes, I can agree that if it's being buggy for others then that could easily make it work worse than Asylum.

 

*Edit - I'll refine my opinion to the following: the (mostly) bug-free version of the combat I've been playing, which I presume to be the way they intended it to play, is subtly changed in a way that makes it flow worse than Arkham City, but it remains better than Arkham Asylum.

Edited November 4, 2013 by TheMightyEthan

[CorgiShinobi]

I fought Bane three times to see if there was anything I was missing, because the first time I thought I did terribly, the second time I did great. The reason I did it a third time is because I wasn't fully paying attention to the game and You-Know-Who was punching me You-Know-Where. So the third time I knew how to fight Bane, but his charging attack kept locking me into a corner. It was awful, but I beat him.

 

Even if combat isn't as bad as I'm seeing it, most of the boss battles have been half-assed. Like, it was cool to fight Deathstroke, but...

 

It's the only time I've seen him, and it was mainly Counters. Killer Croc was alright, but nothing memoriable. Copperhead was kinda cool, but again it turned into one of those Counter battles. Same with Shiva, but it was like many of these boss battles where you're stuck in a tiny-ass room.

 

 

I'm about to face Firefly, so hopefully it's a bit better.

[Strangelove]

I found all the boss fights in Origins to be flashy and cool looking, but bland and repetitive. Its all the same shit really. Even the last boss fight tries to be like another boss fight in City that was awesome, but it pales in comparison in Origins.