Windows 8

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Easier. Windows key, right and enter. Though I guess I could set it up to sleep.

 

If that's how you shut down then this is even worse given Window 7s long start-up time.

[staySICK]

win7 has a long start up time?  even before my ssd I never noticed it.  I usually leave my computer on, like Atomsk said, I'll turn it off if I'm going to be gone for a few days.  Otherwise the only time its off for any extended period of time is when my son decides to play with the power button.  Wish I could find a decent case that had a power button cover.

Edited January 7, 2014 by staySICK

[deanb]

Oh so long start up time. Eons pass. Nations decay and fall into the ocean. I can only assume FDS hasn't been on any pre-Vista PC. Computers boot up shit tons faster than in the past, and that's without SSDs.

 

Anywho, FDS is only jealous that a simple key-combo can power your PC down instead of win-c-down-down-enter-down-across-enter-up-enter-A-B-Select-Start

[TheMightyEthan]

I turn mine off at night, then turn it on in the morning before I get in the shower.  It doesn't use any power overnight and I don't have to wait on it at all.

 

*Edit* - I had a problem a few times with the cat turning it off, but I just changed the Windows power settings so that the power button doesn't do anything.

Edited January 7, 2014 by TheMightyEthan

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Oh so long start up time. Eons pass. Nations decay and fall into the ocean. I can only assume FDS hasn't been on any pre-Vista PC. Computers boot up shit tons faster than in the past, and that's without SSDs.

 

Anywho, FDS is only jealous that a simple key-combo can power your PC down instead of win-c-down-down-enter-down-across-enter-up-enter-A-B-Select-Start

Alt+F4 then enter. So difficult. Or Alt-X and select the option. Also, I don't see what PCs being slow as fuck before Vista has to do with anything now. 7 is still insanely slow compared to 8. But hey, whatever makes you feel better about your slow boot speeds.

 

If Windows 7 was fast articles like this wouldn't exist:

 

http://lifehacker.com/5821865/top-10-ways-to-speed-up-windows-boot-time

[Mal]

Well I have a SSD so its all moot. I can pretty much wake up, hit the power button, sit down, rub my eyes, equip glasses for +10 vision and start using my computer. Coming home I can power on, take off my shoes and backpack, sit down, sigh and go about my day. Any faster and it will be just icing on a cake. So something I don't care about.

 

Otherwise the only time its off for any extended period of time is when my son decides to play with the power button.  Wish I could find a decent case that had a power button cover.

I'm quite sure in the power options you can make the power button do nothing if pressed. Now that I think about it, I should change it now since at my parent's place I have pressed it before.

Edit: Not to say your son cannot hit the reset button if you have one...

Edited January 8, 2014 by MaliciousH

[deanb]

Alt+F4 works on previous windows too, it only works if you've alt+F4'd every other program first.

 

Also if Windows 7 boot up is "insanely slow" you have major impatience issues. And if I remember correctly from cold boot it's not much slower, Windows 8 by default doesn't properly turn off as it thinks it's a tablet OS.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

it only works if you've alt+F4'd every other program first.

 

 

This is laughably incorrect. You do it from the desktop.

 

Also if Windows 7 boot up is "insanely slow" you have major impatience issues.

 

That's all you have about it being objectively slower? That's an incredibly lame argument. Why wouldn't you want everything to be as fast as possible?

 

And if I remember correctly from cold boot it's not much slower, Windows 8 by default doesn't properly turn off as it thinks it's a tablet OS.

 

This is also laughable. Why would you purposefully make Windows 8 take longer to boot up by changing the settings? It's not like you can do all of the changes that they used for the Windows 8 shutdown in Windows 7 if you want a fair comparison. It's 2014 and if you still think Windows 8 is a tablet OS then you have to admit that you are not a technologically inclined person.

[TheMightyEthan]

My usage of Windows 8 (post-8.1) has confirmed my initial impression:  It's great on a touch screen but I wouldn't want it on a desktop/non-touch laptop.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Why wouldn't you want faster speeds, a better looking theme, better explorer, better task manager, faster boot time, better compatibility with modern games, better built-in AV, easier to use on a TV,  faster, better looking app organization, and the power user menu?

[TheMightyEthan]

Because I hate the metro interface on non-touch devices. I know it has desktop mode, but it doesn't have a start menu, except metro, which I hate. *Edit* - also this is the first I've heard of better games compatibility.

 

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

There is no such thing as a "metro interface" on Windows 8. Do you mean the Modern UI?

I'm not sure if you've ever used it if you don't think it has a start menu. You press the windows key and the full-screen start menu appears. How else would you open applications?

 

DX11.1 is Windows 8 only. Games like BF4 show better performance with Windows 8.1.

[TheMightyEthan]

There is no such thing as a "metro interface" on Windows 8. Do you mean the Modern UI?

Do I mean the thing that used to be called Metro but they changed the name to something bland that I couldn't remember? Hmmm...

 

I'm not sure if you've ever used it if you don't think it has a start menu. You press the windows key and the full-screen start menu appears. How else would you open applications?

Yeah, guess what, that start menu is the Metro interface, which as I said, I hate. Like I said in my last post.

 

*Edit* - Also, as far as I can see, the only two games that even support DX11.1, released or announced, are BF4 and Star Trek Online.  Not exactly super compelling.

Edited January 8, 2014 by TheMightyEthan

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Yeah, guess what, that start menu is the Metro interface, which as I said, I hate. Like I said in my last post.

 

 

So even after learning the correct name you continue to use the incorrect one? Do you do this out of willful ignorance? You're better than that. But either way this is incorrect. The whole entire UI is Modern themed, including the desktop. I find that it is extremely common that people who don't even know the correct terms are the luddites who dismiss Windows 8. What you're referring to is the start screen. The Modern UI persists in all aspects: It's part of the desktop, it's part of explorer, it's the taskbar, it's everywhere. Aero has (thank god) been eviscerated from the OS. To explain this in terms even simple people can understand: Modern is the theme for the UI. You could have a Modern-themed Windows 7 style start menu. Start using the correct terms for the specific UI elements (such as the start screen) you are talking about.

 

Anyways, why wouldn't you want a future-proof system? It's not like DX11.1 is going to be ignored as we move into the next-generation.

[TheMightyEthan]

Fine the start screen then.  Whatever it's called, I don't like it.  On a touch screen it's nice, but with a kb/m it just feels clunky compared to the start menu.

 

As far as future proofing goes, two things:

 

1) I'm not convinced it won't be ignored.  DX10 was pretty much ignored.

 

2) Even if it does become integral to gaming there's nothing to stop me from getting Win8 in the future.

[deanb]

 

it only works if you've alt+F4'd every other program first.

 

 

This is laughably incorrect. You do it from the desktop.

 

Also if Windows 7 boot up is "insanely slow" you have major impatience issues.

 

That's all you have about it being objectively slower? That's an incredibly lame argument. Why wouldn't you want everything to be as fast as possible?

 

And if I remember correctly from cold boot it's not much slower, Windows 8 by default doesn't properly turn off as it thinks it's a tablet OS.

 

This is also laughable. Why would you purposefully make Windows 8 take longer to boot up by changing the settings? It's not like you can do all of the changes that they used for the Windows 8 shutdown in Windows 7 if you want a fair comparison. It's 2014 and if you still think Windows 8 is a tablet OS then you have to admit that you are not a technologically inclined person.

 

 

With Win-Right-Enter you don't need to be on the DEsktop, which depending on which part of Win8 you're in might not be so simple to get to either.

 

Well if you're turning your PC off then you'll want it off. If you put your Windows 7 PC into Sleep too it's not going take too long to boot back up either.

And if 9 seconds means much to you then you live a much busier life than most.

 

Being marginally faster at boot isn't really worth the many man hours wasted that'll accrue from general use of the OS. But we've already had this discussion before. You love Windows 8 and a lot of folks just don't like it as a general purpose desktop OS due to the tablet orientated nature. Which to say it isn't a tablet orientated OS is to be quite ignorant to all the damned tablets coming out with it and the fact it's now being tied with Android which I'm pretty sure you don't see Win 7 being tied with Android. Don't tend to see Android on much other than phones or tablets either. The official flagship Windows 8 is the Surface tablet. It's a tablet oriented operating system. Built to deal with a general decline in PC and laptop sales and to try and make headway in the rise of tablet sales.

 

On the gaming front it's ultimately hit and miss. Theoretically it should support all the games Windows 7 can play, in practice that's obviously not been the case. And DirectX 11.1 is as much as draw as the Vista exclusive DirectX 10 was. A new version of DirectX is only compelling to developers if

1. Microsoft are bank rolling them like Halo 2

2. There's a worthwhile user base to it and at the moment it's undeniably better to target the much much larger Windows 7 DirectX 11 user base.

 

Also going "I don't think you've used it if you don't have a start menu" then going later "it has a start screen" you can't see at all why it's a confusing OS when you can't even maintain terminology within a couple of posts of each other. Or the confusing factor of the sudden rebranding of the UI when German trains waded in. 

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

With Win-Right-Enter you don't need to be on the DEsktop, which depending on which part of Win8 you're in might not be so simple to get to either.

 

 

Win+ D always takes you to the desktop. If you're doing something like shutting down then it doesn't really matter what you're doing while you're doing it.

 

As for bootup time I think that's a huge issue. Especially with BF4 often I just have to restart my whole computer as shutting down Origin/Punkbuster/BF4/Firefox w/ the plugin doesn't seem to do the trick. With Windows 8 I'm back in and playing with my friends very fast.

 

I'm not sure what "man hours" (why the need for sexist terminology?) you'd lose considering you can do many things more efficiently with Windows 8.

What makes you think it is tablet oriented? Microsoft has never claimed that. It's touch-oriented. Tablets aren't anywhere near the only touch devices. And even then that's only if you're ignorant enough to not notice any of the 8.1 changes which were primarily aimed M+KB users. Also, explain Chromebooks if you don't think there's space for an Android-like OS on things besides tablets and smartphones. Hell, Chromebooks are more restrictive yet somehow they now have 20% of the market.

 

I don't see what's so confusing about calling the start screen the start screen. What was there before? A start menu. Now it's full screen. So now you call it a start screen. Calling it "Metro" in the first place is your own damn fault. It's like people forgot that Microsoft premiered that design language with the Zune. Also, the rebranding was also very straightforward. No one calls it Metro anymore except for those ignorant of the change. Metro was only a codename to begin with.  It was never officially named that. It's like being confused about why Longhorn is now called Vista.

[TheMightyEthan]

I'm not sure what "man hours" (why the need for sexist terminology?)

[Pojodin]

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/stats-dont-lie-windows-8-has-failed

 

Any thoughts on this?

[deanb]

Right you're still not quite getting the point that due to the current nature of the whole power button being hidden in settings or behind other features that it's now either win+d-alt+F4 or the konami code I posted on other page as opposed to the Win+right+enter Mal posted on the other page.

 

So boot up time is good for you because you have to frequently reboot your computer due to one of the games you've only just championed for it's Win8 specific features doesn't work properly? Huh. Great selling point for both.

 

Many things efficiently, like having to hack your away around the system to put things in your start menu by digging into the guts of the OS to find leftover legacy folders that the OS still responds to. That took at least an hour of research and implementation from the right-click "pin to start menu" Win 7 has. Then there's the repositioning of stuff like major menu items which as we've discussed in the past go out the window not only with over a decade of previous Windows versions but also run counter to every other major desktop OS. As mentioned in the past.

 

I don't know why I might have this impression it's tablet orientated. Maybe it's also the fact they had to patch in stuff to make it work better for mk+b users? Maybe it's the fact I have to keep in mind it's not a desktop OS?

 

Errm Chromebooks are ChromiumOS based not Android based Mr "you don't know anything about technology". And also they're not touch orientated either but website/cloud orientated. Android is Google's tablet/phone OS. Point me to Googles flagship Chromebook tablet if it's otherwise.

 

Nothing is confusing, just that ethan is saying there's no Start Menu, then you refute it by saying there is, then later call it a Start Screen. And you see nothing at all functionally different between the two column menu that took up about 1/8th of the screen to use and the new grid based full screen system?

 

As for Metro versus "Modern Style", it's been called Metro much longer than "Modern Style" and the about turn on naming came very close to release. You really think they went Luna, Aero, Modern Style without their little "European partner" raising concerns with their naming?

 

@Pojodin: The fact they have next to know partners making WinRT computers, and there's this whole "PCplus" stuff with shipping Windows 8 tablets with Android on to make them more alluring. Yeah it's not doing well. Of course Windows 7 launch was helped by replacing the much maligned Windows Vista. and Windows 8 replaces...well nothing. Windows 7 still works on a conventional desktop and on the tablet front Android is cheaper and iPad is hipper.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/stats-dont-lie-windows-8-has-failed

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Pretty bad attention grabbing headline but the article is written well enough and points out the multiple things that could be going on here and brings in Steam as another viewpoint.

 

@Deanb

 

If you can memorize win + right + enter you can memorize other shortcuts. I think the issue here is that you people are even shutting down your computers which isn't really necessary at all.

 

Boot time is objectively good for anyone and I think it's hilarious you're even arguing that. I was giving you one gaming based example since that's why we're all here. Also consider Windows Updates or anything else that requires a restart.

 

Many things efficiently, like having to hack your away around the system to put things in your start menu by digging into the guts of the OS to find leftover legacy folders that the OS still responds to.

 

 

I have no idea what you're referring to. Don't be obtuse. Then again, you know nothing about Windows 8, so I guess that's all you can be.

 

That took at least an hour of research and implementation from the right-click "pin to start menu" Win 7 has.

 

 

Pin to start is still in Windows 8. What the hell are you talking about?

 

 

Then there's the repositioning of stuff like major menu items which as we've discussed in the past go out the window not only with over a decade of previous Windows versions but also run counter to every other major desktop OS. As mentioned in the past.

 

 

Oh no change is bad! Get the fuck over it. Things change. How people use their computers change. How you even need to use your computer changes.

 

 

I don't know why I might have this impression it's tablet orientated. Maybe it's also the fact they had to patch in stuff to make it work better for mk+b users? Maybe it's the fact I have to keep in mind it's not a desktop OS?

 

 

Apparently you're too stupid to understand the difference between "touch oriented" and "tablet oriented." Must be a European thing. Did you not even notice that the Surface keyboards have trackpads?

 

Errm Chromebooks are ChromiumOS based not Android based Mr "you don't know anything about technology".

 

Didn't say they were.

 

And also they're not touch orientated either but website/cloud orientated. Android is Google's tablet/phone OS. Point me to Googles flagship Chromebook tablet if it's otherwise.

 

Never said they were touch oriented. Though there is a touchscreen Chromebook now. Apparently you've missed my point about having a restrictive OS on what is traditionally a "desktop" device. Would it blow your mind to learn that Android works with M+KB and even supports stuff like alt tabbing?

 

Nothing is confusing, just that ethan is saying there's no Start Menu, then you refute it by saying there is, then later call it a Start Screen. And you see nothing at all functionally different between the two column menu that took up about 1/8th of the screen to use and the new grid based full screen system?

 

 

Well let's see here:

 

1) Type to open - Works the same

2) Pinning your favorite apps - You can do this on both, you just have more room and better organization in Windows 8

3) Browsing alphabetically by folder - Still there.

 

Major differences? Full screen, big icons, and the "columns" style organization.

 

As for Metro versus "Modern Style", it's been called Metro much longer than "Modern Style" and the about turn on naming came very close to release. You really think they went Luna, Aero, Modern Style without their little "European partner" raising concerns with their naming?

 

I don't see the relevance. It happened before the name was official. But feel free to get upset about Windows 7 being called Blackcomb or Vienna. I have to give another example because apparently you didn't understand the difference between a codename and finalized names.

[Mr. GOH!]

I hate Windows 8, too. Never used it, off course, but 8 is an unlucky number. I hate unlucky numbers.

[Mal]

8 is a lucky number. Divide it by two and it'll be the unluckiest number.

 

FDS, not like I turn it off all the time. I get lazy in turning it off but I just see no point in leaving it on. If I leave it on, it'll just be a space heater with fans and HDDs to lullaby me to sleep. When I'm gone for the day, at times for 12 hours, then I guess it'll warm the spiders in my house. I guess this is just an extension of what have been drilled into me: turn things off if you are not going to use it for a good amount of time. This goes for lights, TVs and minor appliances.

[Vecha]

I'll wait for windows 9. I love the number nine. It rhymes with wine like when I dine. Why whine while using windows 8 when I can wait for nine? 

[TheMightyEthan]

Metro was the official name for the interface for products in the wild, not just Win8, for like 6 years. The idea that it was only ever an internal codename is a retcon by Microsoft. I'm going to keep calling it Metro because "Modern UI" is clunky and sounds stupid.