TornadoCreator

Some of the articles don't exist any more, like the Yahoo ones, but you know people where saying "PS4 is fastest selling console ever", blah blah... Here's two examples I found in a cursory google search in under 30 seconds - http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/12/12/playstation-4-had-largest-console-launch-in-history http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-12-02-ps4-fastest-selling-console-in-uk-history Both purposely manipulate figures to make the PS4 look far more successful than it actually is. PS: Asking people to provide sources for statistics, claims and facts you can easily confirm yourself via google is a massive sign of denial. Are you honestly claiming you didn't see every gaming news site proclaim the PS4 was going to beat PS2 sales figures and be the next messiah of gaming?

Really, because in my experience we are there now. I don't know anyone who doesn't own at least one games system. And ironically all the casual gamers I know own Xbox 360s... which is pretty much the opposite of what the internet would claim I'd guess. Most of my friends are in their late 20's or 30's with the odd one over 40. My parents each own games systems and they're in their 50s. My dad plays on his iPad daily as does my mum on her 3DS XL, and she's an old school PC gamer. Either UK is far more gaming mad than the rest of the world or we're close to, if not already at, that level Ethan mentions.

True, but none of the 8th gen consoles are successful, the industry is in mid collapse. For some reason gaming press has pushed this gen as a success but it's clearly not. The Xbox One and Wii U struggling about even with about 60,000 global weekly sales each and it's dropping. The Vita is struggling to get more than 45,000 which even the PS3 is besting with over 50,000 (yes, almost as much as the XBO & Wii U). PS4 & 3DS are getting around 90,000 and 120,000 respectively... and they're dropping too, and they're the "successes". These sales are pathetic all round. Now some say it's the summer drought causng this but compared to last gen it's depressingly bad. Look at the sales figures for the first week on July in 2008 for comparison, Xbox 360 sold 104,000... and it was having a bad year because of the RROD, so sales where down. PS3 sold 145,000, PSP sold 230,000, Wii sold 347,000, and DS sold the incredible 487,000 units... in one fucking week in summer, (and no there wasn't a massive release like a new Pokémon game that week either). Sales for 2009 and 2010 are pretty similar, with more than 150,000 weekly sales for every single platform being STANDARD! and more than 200,000 not being uncommon when a popular release hit. There's all these sites claiming the PS4 is one of the best selling systems ever but it's just not true. At this rate the sales of PS3 and 360 are staying strong enough that this entire generation may be aborted yet. This could be a repeat of the Atari 5200; so badly recieved that it was discontinued BEFORE the Atari 2600. Games are still being released multi-gen and without a massive sales boost none of the new systems will succeed, except the 3DS which has actually reached sustainable levels. Remember games are so expensive that the newest Tomb Raider reboot needed 6 million sales to break even. That means AAA games with a similar budget cannot be financially viable on Xbox One at all, and would require more than 80% of the PS4's install base to purchase on release just to break even... that's completely unsustainable. Nintendo may be struggling but at least their games, with their far lower budgets only need around 1-2 million sales to make a profit. Now sure, this could all change if the consoles do well this holiday season, but if by January 2015, the consoles haven't shifted at least 12 milkion units (each), they're pretty much all doomed. This entire industry is in a tailspin. THQ, Atari, Capcom all going bankrupt or into liquidation... who next? Square Enix, Konami and Sony are all in financial trouble. Nintendo, Activision and even EA are all reporting losses. I get angry with all the "Nintendo Is Doomed" crap, not because it's untrue but because EVERYONE is doomed so why are people picking on Nintendo; the only one reforming it's practices by making games with lower budgets using existing assets (Captain Toad, Hyrule Warriors), and buying up struggling IPs that can be made exclusives at relatively small cost (Bayonetta, Devil's Third). Hell even spreading assets across platforms (Smash Bros.), and the Amiibo thing is all about low cost sustainable income... If anyone will be out it'll be Xbox. Sure Microsoft is minted, but they're hardly going to poor all that into the Xbox division. Nintendo and Sony need to win to survive... Microsoft just wants to.

Perhaps you're right, though I wonder why we'd need a term like 'gamer' in that case, we don't lable people 'TV watcher' or 'music listener' because they own a DVD player or an iPod. It just seems redundant...

Well I disagree, much like I did in that thread... and this isn't somthing that's a matter of opinion either. The lines aren't arbitrary, nor are they needless. It's a simple extrapolation of the terms. A casual gamer is someone who plays games casually. My sister is a casual gamer. She owns a Wii, 3DS, and PS3. She plays World Of Warcraft, Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Dynasty Warriors and Wii Fit and pretty much nothing else. She is not a gamer, I couldn't hold down a conversation about video games with her because anything I have to say relies on knowledge she doesn't have, and anything she has to say is something I'm already so familiar with I'd be bored to tears... It's not elitist to recognise the truth. Being a gamer isn't an achievement, it's a hobby. Claiming someone isn't a gamer isn't exclusionary nor is it an insult, it's just recognising that a lable doesn't fit. I am not an otaku, I'm not a petrolhead, and I'm not an audiophile... I'm not offended by these statements. I enjoy animé, cars, and music... they're just not the things I'm especially enthusiastic about. Video games, film, politics, and science; these are my passions. Why FLD, are you seemingly offended by this?

Sorry, I'm having a bad pain day today; I may be fueling my posts with frustration so if I'm short with anyone please know it's not personal... Ok, I'll explain. I have friends who I consider gamers. These people have a good understanding of the history and principles involved in video games. I can discuss gaming with them. Then I have friends who play casually, they own a PS3 or 360, they play what's mainstream now. They play Call Of Duty, GTA, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, and more but they don't have a history with games, they don't follow gaming news, they don't know of developers, they don't play extensively... they play casually. I can always tell the casual players because when I'm talking to an actual gamer the casuals are lost within 5 minutes. If I can't discuss the history of BioWare, lament the butchering of the Ultima games, compare the art styles in Team ICO and Ubisoft games, discuss gender-equality in video games, or contrast the 1983 gaming crash with todays industry paterns... if I can't do that with you you're not a gamer. If "gamer" as a term is intended to mean anything, sure it means "video game enthusiast", after all everyone at least plays some games now. I don't expect everyone to know everything, I've never played the Metal Gear or Tales Of games, and they're massive. But you should be informed and eloquent in the culture of video games if you're claiming to be a 'hardcore gamer', being ranked in Call Of Duty isn't good enough. That would be like claiming to be a sports fan but only watching football. What about tennis, boxing, skateboarding, snooker... sure you don't have to like everything, but if you only watch football you're a football fan, not a sports fan. Same goes for Call Of Duty. Now obviously everyone starts somewhere, so what about todays 12 year olds, or even someone in their 30s but who only recently got into gaming. Well it's nuanced. Sure they won't know everything about the NES and why would they; they're newbies to the hobby and that's expected. When someone starts exploring though, playing less publicised games like Pandora's Tower, Remember Me, or Vanquish... they try new genres or explore older systems, they are gamers; because they're going beyond the mainstream. That's why I claim Call Of Duty and Bioshock are casual, because they're mainstream but without a difficult barrier to entry. Dark Souls is also mainstream, it's not casual because it's barrier to entry is far higher, Hell the first Dragon Age or Mass Effect games... not casual, which is why the sequels where "streamlined". Resident Evil; not casual, which is why they changed the genre completely to appeal to the casual market. As gaming grows and becomes more mainstream, what constitutes casual gaming expands.

Hahahahahaha, no. No, it doesn't. Besides, Bioshock might be a big deal to us but it's hardly as mainstream outside of gaming circles as you might think. If someone knows about and played Bioshock, they're hardly "casual" gamers. Thinking harder about games doesn't make you more of a gamer and neither does seeking out obscure titles. Cut that pretentious crap. Casual simply means that, casual... it's not a lesser position it's merely an indication of how enthusiastic and involved you are in the hobby. I'm a casual anime fan. Yes Bioshock is casual, so is Call Of Duty, GTA, Mario, and a shit load more. In fact, almost any game can be casual and a best-selling GOTY game like Bioshock Infinite certainly counts. Cut that indignant offended crap.

You posted while I was responding, I didn't mean your post.

Dead by who's estimation? Yours? I'm using the Gamepad RIGHT NOW! It's a fantastic addition to the console. I use off TV play all the time, I use media features all the time too. It's a delight to use with YouTube or Netflix. In fact I prefer the Wii U to the iPad for tablet funtions. Why claim it's dead and then go on to rush to a middle-ground, "you can like it if you want" stance. It doesn't need support; off TV play alone is enough. This is exactly what I mean though, YOU don't like it so it's a "dead" gimmick. It's literally the reason I got the Wii U. I wanted to see how tablet functions could add to gameplay, and Deus Ex: Human Revolution used it brilliantly. Here's hopin Watch_Dogs will too. There are other people who like to play things differently to you, and you do them a disservice calling their methods of gameplay gimmicks. What if I considered online play a gimmick, which I may as well. I don't want Wii U to have great online support; they do couch co-op and single player games, with good MiiVerse intergration, which adds a nice social media element to it all. I certainly don't want them focusing on online multiplayer... that would be horrible. You see not every company needs to be the same. Anti-Nintendo rhetoric is sad and far too 'accepted norm' on the internet as a whole so it makes even normal people default to a "Nintendo is bad" opinion. Hell, this forums biggest Nintendo thread is titled 'Nintendo is Fucked' so don't claim it doesn't happen here. Why all the goddamn hate and hyperbole? Do people just get some perverse pleasure in the concept of Nintendo being bad? I can see the attraction to Sony/Microsoft consoles, my primary console is a PS3, but it's completely different to the experiences I expect from Nintendo. I would never expect to see a game like Captain Toad on PS3, and certainly not Xbox. Not unless it was a half-arsed PSN/XBLA game, On Wii U it gets a full retail release because puzzle games and platformers are embraced by Nintendo... that's the difference. By all means criticise, but can we please stop the Nintendo doom-saying, it's pathetic and makes sensible discussion difficult at best. If you have reasons why Nintendo should be third party, or why they should drop the Gamepad, or why they should 'go mobile' or all the other shit I hear on the net nowadays; that's not based around attracting the Playstation/Xbox audience sure... but you don't, because Nintendo only count as one of the big three when it suits people. It's why there's loads on PS3 vs. 360 or PS4 vs. XBO discussions online... because Nintendo are a completely different market, and a completely different way of doing things.

I think at this point this thread is losing site of the original point... sure we can debate how we discuss and analyse games but when it comes to betrayal we need look no further than EA! Every game franchise worth something is destroyed by EA. They killed Ultima for fuck sake, they turned Dead Space into a microtransaction shill, they gutted Bullfrog, they ruined Command & Conquer, they destroyed Simcity... and then there's BioWare, you poor thing; they basically raped every franchise BioWare built up and left nothing of value behind. EA are evil!

Which is entirely valid Hot Heart. Such casual gamers have every right to enjoy the medium without needing to be enthusiasts. Of cause people get upset when you suggest they're 'casual' gamers, because they think of people on Candy Crush or FarmVille. I don't count them as gamers at all. If you play games maybe twice a week, enjoy the mainstream titles. Bioshock Infinate, GTA V, The Last Of Us, Titanfall, Mario Kart 8 etc. but rarely delve into the deeper elements or obscure games; you're a casual gamer. Just as someone who buys 5 DVDs a year and occasionally goes to the cinema isn't a film buff, they're a casual film fan. Gaming needs that divide... Now I will presume most people here are hardcore gamers simply because it's a gaming forum, but most of my friends are not hardcore gamers... and I'm happy to accept that some people don't want to analyse the games. The thing is, if that's the case I take their opinions on my hobby a lot less seriously; just as I would the insights of a casual film fan on the direction of modern film. It's nothing personal, nor it it meant as an insult or to undermine someones opinion... I just feel it makes more sense.

Why the hell do people still push the shitty "Nintendo should go third party" rhetoric? They are literally the only company that shouldn't. PC, Playstation, and Xbox are practlically the same platforms. The exclusives have similar aims and targets, their art direction, business model, and target audience are all the same. Literally the only fucking platform that's even slightly different is Nintendo's platforms. Anyone who claims they should go third party is either a troll, a fool who's grasp of the industry is tenuous at best, a fanboy who delights in the idea of Nintendo failing because they've stupidly developed an emotional bond for one of it's competitors; or all three. Seriously, look at Nintendo. They make/support platformers, puzzle games, adventure games, and heavily Japanese baised RPGs. Everyone else makes first/third person shooters, 3D brawlers, western action-RPGs, and open world sandbox games. Nintendo couldn't be more different from mainstream gaming if it tried. People who own Playstation/Xbox consoles don't want platformers or puzzle games, just as people who own Nintendo consoles don't want shooters and sandboxs... now there are some exceptions, like myself; who likes both so owns both, but the audience for these games are not the same. Just because Nintendo has a smaller target audience does not invalidate it's existence. Can we all agree to stop perpetuating this sad Nintendo hate. It's been going on since the GameCube and it's pathetic. The Discovery Channel doesn't need to close and make programs for Sky One, their audiences are completely different, and the same is true for Nintendo. Simple point for those that don't own a Nintendo system, if the next 3D Mario game was on Playstation/Xbox, would you buy it at full retail on release? The answer is "no", isn't it? Of course it is, otherwise Ratchet & Clank would actually sell well. You don't want third party Nintendo, you just like the idea of it.

American police sound like total dicks... makes me glad to be British. Only trouble I've ever had with the police was this year and they where positively nice about it by comparison.

The internet, filled with morons as usual, has decided to hoax a new Nintendo system apparently coming in 2015... which is just stupid. It did however get me thinking, what if there was a new system and it was as follows. The Nintendo Fusion, a home console with slightly improved hardware. More RAM etc. just to run things that little bit smoother. With a tablet controller, just like the Wii U; only this tablet controller supports stereoscopic 3D and the console can play both Wii U AND 3DS games... it would be an interesting console, with the entire Wii, Wii U, 3DS, and DS libraries to back it. As a thought experiment it's certainly interesting... Hell it doesn't even need to be a new console, a new GamePad for the Wii U with a 3DS port on it could do much the same thing. Like I say, I don't believe for a second that there actually is a new system coming; but I thought it'd be fun to speculate on the possibilities.

'Dangerous & Moving' by tATu They've always had such a unique sound I felt.

Now this was a great buy... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191240282620?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 That's right, an original Xbox with controller, leads, and 4 games for £3.20... almost feels mean.

If people embraced the Vita it would in theory be a perfect handheld... but without more sales people will declare it "dead", developers will pull back support and it's screwed, despite having a higher install base than the PS4 currently. It could easily be salvaged, if only Sony tried.

Sadly no, I've been arrested for computer crime. It was terrifying, though admittedly the police themselves where discrete and courteous. I guess a barely mobile guy with a cane who needs help standing up is hardly threatening. I'm currently not allowed to own a computer under bail conditions, hense using a Wii U here. All I'll say is this, being bored, frustrated, and in pain is not a defense for a crime. It made me feel capable at a time when I was losing my independence... I feel very stupid though.

Aaah, I was, for obvious reasons, unaware of such areas. Still, if people wish to vent or console those venting... perhaps this thread can still serve a purpose. At the very least, it helped writing that first post. For some reason, telling people makes me feel better; not sure why.

Being humble is nothing but society reinforcing the Puritan Christian belief that pride is sinful. Humility can be endearing to an extent but being "humble" unduly is just communal lying. I am a very intelligent person, I've studied at three universities, I've an IQ above genius level; 147, my spacial awareness is exceptional, and I am extremely well read. To deny these things is to deny my achievements and good qualities. In my life I've learned to embrace what makes me great, as I have enough flaws to focus on already. Perhaps that's arrogant but I see it as self actualisation, which is a good thing. Don't shy away from your qualities, wear them proudly; it's far healthier than self-loathing. When it comes to gaming. I enjoy game analysis in much the same way that I enjoy film analysis. In a few years I may be quite limited to what games I can actually play so I decided a while ago to be sure to appreciate the deeper aspects of my games as they're not as reliant on twitch-skill. There's every chance I'll be using easy modes as a default very soon.

Ok, the humility in this thread is shocking. Am I the only one here who genuinely does consider himself smart enough to intellectually analyse games? I do it as a hobby and consider most popular critics woefully underqualified. Perhaps that makes me somewhat arrogant, but I've never yet played a game that I didn't fully understand and comprehend, both in a literal interpretation and the symbology, metaphor, and philosophy it employed.

As people may be aware I have a lot of issues. I suffer with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Migraines, Chronic Fatigue and more. I have constant chronic pain and severe lack of mobility (I can't walk more than a few yards now, two years ago I could walk fine, five years ago I was doing TA training and regular martial arts). My condition is serious and untreatable. My muscles degrade over time, this includes my heart which will fail within 10 years, before that I will become confined to a wheelchair, lose all fine motor control, and even go blind depending on which muscles degrade first. It's a lot to take in. I make no effort to hide that online socialising helps me relax, keeps my mind active etc. it's why I purposely seek out debates. I'm frequently angry though, often feel overwhelmed by depression and frustration. I'm certain I'm not alone, so that's what this thread is for. If the admin and moderators see no issue with it, this is somewhere to let loose; unload and otherwise be unreasonable. Swear, call people out, be a dick, and have it understood it's nothing personal. Likewise if people want to reach out, listen etc. offer a friendly ear... great. I'm sure it'll do me some good, and I hope others feel the same.

I go for Game Of The Year editions where possible, so often I get DLC packed in. Fallout 3 and GTA IV both have fantastic DLC. Thankfully, I got them as a physical release. DmC: Devil May Cry also had good DLC, though sadly it'll likely never get a GOTY or complete edition.