TornadoCreator

The problem is Strangelove, you claim to like games with a good story/atmophere but go on to defend Final Fantasy XIII and Dragon Age 2. Games that took franchises about story, atmosphere, and a deeper narrative driven game; and turned them into linear, watered-down, incomprehensible pap with nothing worthwhile to impart. You claim they're fun? When?! What's fun about these poorly written slogfests with no challenge or thought in the gameplay. These games practically play themselves. Dragon Age: Origins is not perfect, it's unbalanced, relies heavily on Tolkien and Gygax tropes, and has the most unsubtle, "we cut this out of the main game because we're greedy twats and intend to charge you twice" DLC. It is however a great traditional fantasy RPG, with genuine roleplaying, customisation, and consequence in the story. The world is immersive and well realised. The gameplay is challenging and follows reasonable rules, and while lacking balance, this provides more varied challenge depending on class. It's a solid 8/10, maybe even a 9/10, and at the time was the only decent fantasy Western RPG in years. Do you not see why DA2 was so disappointing? And to compare it with Final Fantasy XIII is frankly disgusting... I wish I could go over how disgusting that game was. How dare it hold the name Final Fantasy!

Actually, I like the dual screen set-up. It's made the Wii U a joy to use and used correctly it can make menus, inventory, maps etc. far better implemented. One high end screen, that's what the Vita tried and it wasn't exactly popular. My favourite system by a long way, the Vita, but it's expensive to develop for and lacks the simple pick-up-and-play charm a less advanced handheld has.

I couldn't disagree with you more Strangelove. Your view of video games is actually rather upsetting. That you fail to see a piece of art and insist games have to be "fun" is such a wild oversimplification that I find it insulting. Spec Ops: The Line isn't fun it's disturbing, Silent Hill 2 isn't fun it's frightening, Journey isn't fun it's relaxing or contemplative. Sure fun is great, it's why I play Mario games; but it's not all games can offer. You choose to downplay story, character development, and atmosphere. I consider them of paramount importance. Breaking immersion, cognitive or ludonarrative disodence, inconsistant art style etc. these things ruin games for me however it's clear I enjoy games on a far deeper level than you; and that's not meant as personal criticism. It would be like you only wanting Warner Bros. cartoon shorts and wondering why people complain about plot holes or inconsistent characters in film; after all if it makes you laugh it's fine. What we get from video games is entirely different; but I have to question why you purposesly refuse to look at the deeper elements.

I'm not a fan of either Zombies in games (so very overdone), or first person perspective so I'll be giving Zombie U a miss but I always assumed it was hated on unduly just because it was on the Wii U and tried something different.

WHAT!!! There's no way you.... oh, I get it.... It's a joke, you're being humerous. ...right? ...riiiiight?! :'/

I actually do have a Sega Saturn, but I'm more looking for modern games for the game room. My Saturn, Xbox, Dreamcast, Wii U and Xbox 360 won't be in the game room; it's my friends game room after all. That said if I have to I'll pack up the 360 or Wii U and take them with me on game nights if it means there's some decent local co-op available.

I have to agree with FLD here. There's no way DA2 can compare to DA:O. From a storytelling perspective it's boring, trite, and lacks the scope and scale of the first by a massive margin. Gameplay wise it's homogeneous crap, if anything it reminds me of Final Fantasy XIII in the was it keeps you going down featureless hallways allbthe time. Edit: Here's some good eloquent reviews. And the second game...

Thanks Alex, I tend to avoid digital distribution on principle but if I can't get them on physical retail release I may have to swallow my pride and check out the PSN for some of these... after all our weekly games nights will get boring quickly if all we play is Smash Bros. and Mega Drive games.

I have an unused digital download code for "The Legend Of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD" on Wii U. As I don't much like digital distribution, (I'm all about the physical media), I got the game again as a physical copy. If anyone's interested in the digital copy; make me an offer. The game's currently £30 on Amazon and £49.99 direct from Nintendo's eShop (because they still have no idea how pricing works, clearly). I think it's EU specific, but I'm not sure. Let me know if anyone wants it, I'm looking to get around £25 for it. I'm thinking PayPal would be the most simple way.

I did write a long response but the browser randomly refreshed and deleted it... grrrr. As I said, I realise that cutting FPSs limits my options but that's rather sad isn't it. When the Mega Drive can offer everything from platformers to beat 'em ups to racing games all with local co-op, it's sad that the only multiplayer we can offer is "use gun on man". Look at what the Mega Drive has; World Of Illusion, Great Circus Mystery, Toejam & Earl, Ren & Stimpy, Streets Of Rage 2, Golden Axe, Alien Storm, TMNT: Hyperstone Heist, Micro Macines, Road Rash 2, Zombies Ate My Neighbours, Mega Bomberman and so many more... that's a dozen games off the top of my head. Really it all comes down to the game room. It would be such a shame to have the big HDTV sitting there with three guys wanting to game, and have nothing modern to play. System wise there's the Mega Drive, GameCube, Playstation 2, and Playstation 3. There's also soon to be a Playstation 4. I already know of a few good PS2 games for multiplayer; namely Burnout 3: Takedown, Champions Of Norrath, and the Dynasty Warriors series but that's pretty much all I can find. I know there must be some local multiplayer games, after all the PS3 supports up to 4 controllers simultaneously so surely there are games that use them.

I'm a collector... patches and DLC make collecting difficult and reinforce the idea that online connectivity is standard; which in turn reinforces the move towards digital distribution which makes collecting outright impossible. The thing people forget is how easily a medium can be forgotten, ironically. Remember that 90% of all film made before 1930 is lost, and 50% of all film made before 1950. Film as a medium started in aprox. 1890; if we presume that video games started in 1970, an equivalent would be the loss of almost every game (90%) made before 2010, and the loss of half the games released between 2010 and 2030. For the most part, it would be as though the medium never existed. I don't want the entirety of interactive art to be lost all because it makes more money for people in the short term. I can still play my Mega Drive now, and my Dreamcast... but what about Fallout: New Vegas on the PS3/Xbox 360. That game is lost forever in a few small years because without the servers it can't be patched and it's pretty much unplayable. Then there's games like Titanfall which, being online only will be lost within the decade once the servers are off. I play my Dreamcast regularly, there's every reason to believe I'd still play my PS3 in 2029, (assuming I live to see it). I want to see games that last. Now, I accept that others won't feel the same way. Hell I can even see the value in digital media; after all I use Netflix, Amazon Video, and Spotify. The thing is music and film aren't at risk, CDs and DVDs still get made. Games however are far too frequently digital distribution only, like Shadowrun Returns for example. Oh, and the Sith don't deal in absolutes, that's merely Jedi propaganda

I do not and will not accept or buy Disc Locked Content of any kind. If a developer wants money out of me they can make an actually decent game worth fucking paying for for a change. This should not be acceptable. As far as I'm concerned a game is a finished product. I expect no DLC, no patches, no fucking updates... if it's not finished by the time the release day comes, delay and fucking finish it you lazy bastards; don't release it half finished then charge me another £5.99 to see the bit you cut out. I'd not be happy if someone cut the last 10 mins off a film, or tore the last chapter from a book and tried to charge me for them. What makes the games industry think it's so unique that it gets special treatment. I don't support digital distribution, and I will not accept DLC. If a game has DLC or patches I refuse to buy it until the "Game Of The Year" version comes out with all the patches/DLC on the disc... or as I like to call it, the finished version.

A friend of mine has recently moved house and in doing so he's set up a big game room with a 42" HDTV and big leather sofa. Naturally we're thinking local co-op. He has a GameCube and Mega Drive (with a converter box so it doesn't look shitty on a big HDTV), set up so obvious multiplayer awesome like Streets Of Rage 2 and Smash Bros. Melee are available; the thing is we're modern gamers too and the PS3 seems oddly lacking. Local campaign co-op seems genuinely rare nowadays, I don't remember playing anything built for it since 2009 with the Gears Of War games. We don't want nor care about online multiplayer, we'll be in the same damn room. So here's my question; can anyone suggest some games with local co-op, or at least local multiplayer for ideally three people, though two people would also be good. Oh, and no FPS games, none of us like or play FPS games. We're more into third person action games, plafformers, racing, RPGs, basically anything except bloody FPS games... there's more to multiplayer than firing a damn gun.... aaaaggghhh, why does everything have to try and copy Call Of fucking Duty!? </rant> PS: Please don't just post a link to co-optional and act like you've made the conversation redundent (yes I mean you FDS), that site sucks and doesn't seperate online from local, even when you specifically tell it to.

Aaaah, fair enough... in that case my most recent purchase is ages ago, so much so I can't remember it. I was looking at getting Shadowrun 5th Edition but it's ungodly expensive, especially as no where sells it here so I'd have to get it imported from USA paying postage and customs duty on it, pushing it way up past the £100 mark. I did get a few nice t-shirts from Jacamo last month, a bargin actually at only £7.50 each.

I have to be really picky with my dice, I've not got the best vision and the mottled patterns on some dice make them genuinely difficult to read for me. I prefer bold colours, stark contrast on the numbers. Recent purchase - This Wii U, and the games for it; Mario 3D World, Wind Waker HD, and Deus Ex... definately a massive purchase. I've also bought Fallout 3: Game Of The Year Edition for PS3 which I've not played in ages. I'll not be making any big purchases for a long while methinks.

I know it's probably not healthy but yeah it makes me genuinely angry. All I can think about when playing them is how they exist INSTEAD of proper RPG sequels to one of my all time favourite games. The squandered potential drives me crazy and it genuinely robs me of joy I'm sure; but that said I know I'm not alone. There are tonnes of Resident Evil fans who enjoy shooters like Binary Domain and Gears Of War but hate Resident Evil 6 because it represents yet another year without a proper survival horror game. That's how I feel with Mass Effect.

My problem is that it doesn't matter how good they are I can never enjoy them, they're just a constant reminder that the industry took my only decent sci-fi western RPG in years and turned it into yet another fucking third person shooter... and I LIKE third person shooters. The thing is; I own Uncharted, Vanquish, Spec Ops: The Line, Gears Of War, Kane & Lynch, Bionic Commando, Binary Domain, Dead Space, Hitman, Splinter Cell, Wet, Tomb Raider... and so many more. How many sci-fi RPGs do I own, well there's Star Wars: KOTOR and Mass Effect... and that's it. As far as I'm concerned, I consider the Mass Effect games no different than the Resident Evil games, competent action games but a betrayal regardless. Resident Evil 6 is shite not because it's bad but because it's not survival horror; somehow though Mass Effect 2 got away with not being an RPG and got endless praise which if anything makes me even more angry.

Couldn't agree more, I only own Mass Effect, no sequels because I refuse to have those steaming piles of desperate pandering to the "mainstream", because we all know Call Of Duty fans will get the sequel if only we tone down the RPG elements in a fucking RPG... screw you; stupid developers. I actually purposely didn't include the Mass Effect sequels because I know people will accuse me of over-reacting because they're "good games". Who cares if they're good Gears Of Mass Effect games, they're shite RPGs; and at a time when every second game is a third person cover based shooter but there's pretty much no RPGs at all. It feels like the damn devs are just trolling us.

We've all got stories about games that we feel betrayed us. Games so bad that it actually makes you upset thinking about it, maybe even angry and what they did to a franchise you love. For me there are a few that jump to mind such as Dragon Age 2, Sonic '06 and Ultima IX: Ascension. The biggest one for me though has to be Final Fantasy XIII. What a massive insult that game was. FFXIII is an insulting, terribly written, nonsensical, badly paced, 50 hour long corridor where you're forced to watch a game play itself as you travel though an incomprehensible world, with characters with no growth, development, or clear motivations for anything they do. Gameplay wise... there isn't any. Considering the brilliance in, well basically the first 10 games in this franchise frankly, this is depressing. I grew up playing Final Fantasy games. 8 was my first, and naturally my favourite... my first mainly because Europe gets screwed for localisation. Still, this game was incredible. Sure it had flaws and the gameplay was easily broken, but the storyline was fantastic. Likable and interesting characters, interesting world, and at least capable gameplay. FF7, a merging of traditional Cyberpunk tropes and JRPG traditional gameplay. Rightly considered one of the best RPGs ever made. FF9, a traditional fantasy JRPG with fun characters and a great atmosphere, FF6, the best telling of the classic science vs. magic tropes in an RPG to date. Hell, even FF10, a decent exploration of religious propaganda, the revolving death door in many fantasy settings, and following the disenfranchising that occurs when the propaganda and corruption is exposed... and it has one of the best battle systems and upgrade systems in the franchise, (international version only, the USA version was limited as hell). This was a fantastic, iconic franchise... So, do you have any games that you'd name as a Betrayal?

Just embedding this video as the link in the first post, from my phone doesn't seem to load properly.

I've actually started prefering shorter games now. A good solid 5-10 hours with inventive fun gameplay and a compelling story is enough now. I find that for me games over 20 hours long basically never get finished... I start them sure but I get distracted and move on to something else. I've not finished InFamous for precisely this reason; I've played a little over 12 hours but I keep getting destracted and not finishing it. Unless it's an RPG, a game that's more than 15-20 hours long is in effect sentencing itself to being perpetually incomplete. RPGs get maybe 40-50 hours, and even then all it takes is one addictive minigame and I'll never actually reach the final boss.

I don't even count Steam games in my backlog now, I simply have too many games from all the humble bundles, and I'm probably never going to actually play any of them. I'm almost tempted to claim that only games on physical media count for me as I don't like digital distribution anyway. I checked on HowLongToBeat.com and my PS3/Wii U games alone make 20 days worth of continuous gameplay in my backlog, and that's only doing one basic playthrough, not attempting to 100% anything. If I put in 4 hours a day, every day, it'd take me 4 months to beat them all... and I'm not including my sizeable PS2/Xbox/360 backlog, or the games on my wishlist I've yet to pick up. Hence why I asked if anyone has any tactics.

I know right, after all what better way for Britain to celebrate cutting all the chaff out of the empire than with Sony cutting some prices...

I can see you're one of those old guard members on the forum who likes to make the new members feel welcome and encourages them to post, enriching the community and making for a friendly environment all round...