Thursday Next

Wonder if he's the longest running character ever? I'm guessing it'd be close between him and James Bond.

Is that considered normal?

You purchased the right to use that software on that system. If you want the right to use that software on a different system, then you need to pay to do so. I hope TME was sitting down for that one. Personally, I would love for publishers to change this rule. Movie publishers have to an extent with the Triple Play Blu-Ray/DVD/Digital Copy. I'd like to see book publishers do the same with Kindle, so buying a book would give you access to the kindle version too, I'd also be a huge fan of buying on one platform giving you access to all, but so long as we have platform owners, it will never happen. Also, on the "Buying pre-owned is against the publishers wishes" that's a good point. I'd say that while publishers are of course, not fans of the second hand market (though they do what they can to monetise it), they respect your right to sell on what you've purchased and place it above their right to control content, as does the law.

Pretty much agree with everything Ethan said. We will just have to agree to disagree on whether the right to control your content should be absolute. EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm assuming that all references to "rights", "fair use" and so on are used in their natural sense, not their legal definitions.

Whether piracy helps or harms is totally moot. Publishers create the content. They offer you the limited right to consume it provided you do so as they direct. You then ignore the rights and wishes of the publisher and do whatever the hell you like. You should respect the rights and wishes of others. It's about as black and white as you can get. No lives are on the line, you will not suffer any harm by abiding by the publishers wishes, there is no moral dilemma here. If anime publishers in Japan decided to release anime via torrents to build awareness then that's their business. They have said, "This is my content, and I'm willing to share it for free." Just because that model may have proved successful for one industry, or one publisher within that industry, doesn't mean that you get to force it on another industry or publisher. You are not the CEO of Activision, Ubisoft or any other publisher, neither are you a major shareholder (unless you are, in which case, you should publicly announce that x product is to be freely available via torrent, but you'd appreciate people going out and buying it and/or your other products), you don't have the right to decide what to do with that companies IP any more than you do to rearrange the furniture in their office.

So like is SixTwoSixFour super amazing to game with or something? Are we going to have to take turns to co-op with him?

No way would I stab someone to save their life in a US store, they'd survive, get asthma and sue me for my trouble. P.S. Dean, I clicked the quote button. I removed the previous statement directed at Yant. I didn't change anything else.

The day you pirating a game saves a life I'll take that point. Till then let's just stick too: "Stepping on my lawn might be fun = I get miffed" and "Playing a pirated game might be fun = Publisher gets miffed".

A pity then, that "for my own entertainment" seems such a weighty reason.

So stop pretending it's not about wether it harms devs/publishers or not. What are you smoking? EDIT. Just realised I misread that. didn't see the "not" my bad. My point is that it's not for you to decide how anyone deals with their own property. I say keep off my lawn, you keep off my lawn. I say don't play with my toys, you don't play with my toys. I believe that I should have exclusive rights over my property and my creations. If I choose to lock them up and never share them, that's for me to decide. It's not for you to say what's in my interests or what you'd rather I do with my property. My being a selfish arsehole does not give you or anyone else the right to take what I'd rather not share.

Just a difference of opinion in how we should hold the rights of others then. Nothing in the world is gonna change that. Since you asked... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_and_blood_transfusions

Today's scenario? As in X-Talk is the bar. The commenters are people that I regularly converse with. The number one topic of conversation at the time was Mr Jobs. So I offered my thoughts? That scenario? I would not go out of my way to find an Apple forum, register, hop on an "RIP Steve Jobs" thread and start calling them a bunch of cry-babies. In fact, I would not go to any new forum, sign up and try to find an "RIP Steve Jobs" thread and comment on it. Nor would I create an "I don't care that Steve Jobs is dead" topic, because, well, I don't care enough to do it. EDIT: Dean. It ain't fiction, just a natural fact...

As I said, causing harm is not part of the issue. Much as I hate to have to analogise... If you give blood to a Jenova's witness, that is wrong, even though abiding by their wishes will cause them to be dead while defying them could be the start of a complete recovery. So yes. Don't pirate/buy the games, even though it causes financial harm to a content owner. Content owners (mostly) don't want you to pirate their games so don't do it unless they say you can. In proof reading this, I've just noticed my typo, but I'm leaving it in anyway cos I rather like it.

If I were in a bar, talking with the people I regularly drink and talk with, and the conversation turned to Jobs, yes. I would venture my opinion.

I might as well ask you why everyone feels the need to speak publicly about how special Steve Jobs made their lives. If you want to mourn him, then do so, if you want to mourn him without other people interjecting, then mourn privately. As you said yourself a time and a place for everything. You don't want to hear public opinion, don't bare your soul in public.

Rarely am I so closely aligned with Dean (a quick peek at the piracy thread will reveal that). But what he said illustrates my feelings on this matter perfectly.

@Dean Since when did I get to share a universe with Yant? My argument is simple. The publisher creates and owns the content. They say you cannot have it unless you fulfil certain conditions. You refuse to fulfil these conditions and use the content against the content creator's wishes. Doing something to/with the property of another against their wishes is, in my opinion, wrong. It doesn't matter if it causes physical, psychological or financial harm to the owner or the goods or if it has no effect whatsoever. The fact is that you have not acted in accordance with the owners rights and wishes. Some people on this forum have openly admitted that they just don't care that they are infringing the publishers rights, that they know it is technically wrong to do so, but they are not bothered. That's a choice they make, one I disagree with, but I understand it. Why should you care? You don't know the owners, you can't know them, they're not a human, they're a company. So it's just a case of "is it worth putting yourself out by doing the right thing? Or would you rather have the content you want for free?" I wish that everyone felt like Yant and I on this issue, that everyone respected the rights of others to control what they create, and placed those rights above their desire for entertainment, but, that's not the way things are.

Stop comparing Steve Jobs to Einstein. It's an incredible insult to a man who devoted his life to peace and the advancement of our understanding of the universe. Einstein won a Nobel Prize for Physics in 1922, had a chemical element named after him in 1955, was named "Person of the Century" by Time magazine in 1999, his name is synonymous with scientific genius. He was instrumental in spurring on the US to develop the nuclear bomb which saved countless lives by bringing the second world war to a close, and he did this despite a life dedicated to pacifism (I can think of no greater sacrifice, no harder choice than setting aside your principles for the greater good, especially when you know that thousands will die as a result of your actions). He paved the way for solar generated electricity with his work on the photo-voltaic cell. Einstein's work provided the foundation for two potential solutions to the inevitable energy crisis the planet faces, his work in nuclear physics and his work on solar energy. His general and special theory of relativity changed physics forever. Steve Jobs ran a company that makes some popular lifestyle gadgets. Get some perspective.

Maybe not the right thing to say at this time but him being attributed as the iCreator is gettign a bit on my wick even if he's dead: Pixar - George Lucas. Jobs bought it. Apple Computer - Steve Wozniak. Jobs sold it. (Also it was made before Windows existed) iPod - Jonathan Ive. He's the guy behind most of their devices the past decade+ that Jobs has been around. I've never been a fan of him, his company or his products. Apart from possibly needing to add a new filter to DestroyTwitter today is going to be much the same as any other day for me. Hit me up when my gran dies (or any of yours. They've probably done more for you guys than Jobs has). So yeah, a dude dies. That's sad. Probably many thousands while I wrote this. Kinda sad too. Not much to dwell on really :/ Pretty much what Dean said. The guy had zero impact on my life. I'm sad for the people who knew him and lost a loved one, just like I'm sad for anyone who loses a loved one. But I never met the guy, so I don't "care" in the way that so many others seem to.

It always descends into name calling, then people step away for a few months (mostly to think up some more car based analogies) cool off some and we pick up in a more civilised way. It's a shame this thread lost its subheading "Wherein we argue eternally."

Incidentally, this is why Commo rose = Camaros. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-18-pc-battlefield-3-camaros-on-day-one I'm sure it's mentioned elsewhere in this forum, perhaps in this very thread, but just so you all know I haven't completely taken leave of my senses.

That's still 2 hours isn't it? As they say, time is money. If you demo a game for more than 8hrs 20mins to save yourself the $60 for a new release like MW3 you are essentially working for less than minimum wage. For a released title such as Deus Ex, "demoing" the game for more than about 5 and a half hours to save the $40 price tag is your minimum wage limit, and spending more than 2hrs 45mins on a $20 indie title puts you in minimum wage territory too. That's all assuming that you don't then buy the game.

Is the point we keep coming back to. Pirate-to-demo folk claim that they would not buy the game without trying it, so it's not a lost sale. Some other pirate-to-own people claim they would never have bought the game so it's not a lost sale. Unfortunately, we can never know that they are telling the truth. The label "Pirate" doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the person making the assertion, nor does the fact that they obtained the software through an illegitimate source. Further, the pirate themselves does not know that they would never have acquired the game legitimately. Perhaps someone would have gifted it to them if they had said in passing conversation to their friend/relative/significant other "I'm curious about x game, but don't want to buy it in case it sucks.". Maybe they would have walked into a store, seen a buy one get one free offer on a game they wanted and this was the only other title that was of any interest. Unless you can see every twist and turn of your future you cannot say with certainty that you would never have bought it, so I can never really believe you when you do. You can only say that at the time you had/have no intention of buying it. So you cannot reasonably discount yourself as a potential lost sale.

Camaros!

VoiP is knackered in PS3 at the moment. Should be fine come release. Restricting communication is not necessarily a step backwards. Broadband communication just leads to a load of chatter and trash talking. Restricting comms to squads means that communication is (usually) more focussed on how to achieve goals.