Eleven

Since you don't have a long-ass post I'm going to bother to respond I see what you're saying. For Metro apps, I agree that it would not be as good as an experience on desktop, or on laptop mode of hybrid systems, when using a keyboard and a mouse. However, I find that the Start page and charms are welcome and still as usable on desktops. In fact, I prefer the start page to the start menu, because it now becomes a one stop launcher (pinned icons) of all applications I could think of, because it has space for it. That's why I don't think the desktop use is compromised at all. The only metro app you need to deal with on Desktop mode is the Start page. However, it will be if you force yourself to use a Metro app when you could easily use a desktop app for the same purpose. Chrome for Metro vs Desktop, for example. Or even Mail.

I looked at my post and I think I removed the part where I acknowledged that (good for tablets). However the discussion is focused completely on desktops and I just disagree that it should be that way (though I did say that if you're a desktop user that you might not appreciate it at all). In any case, some things on the desktop are moved around/changed to cater to both, but I wouldn't say compromised, I disagree that (except for the All Apps section that I think is a mess) these changes compromise the desktop user. They're just different. That's all I have to say about that because I don't really want to get into this discussion. That is just my opinion on Windows 8 (and I guess Microsoft's direction) as a whole. Regarding your comment about people already having laptops, that is no excuse not to introduce change, as people will already have laptops no matter what season they introduce the new Windows. What I was trying to say is if you get a new one, don't limit yourself, as you won't be able to appreciate Windows 8's potential on a portable device.

Lenovo has released (and I'm sure you guys are aware of them) some Windows 8 laptops. The IdeaPad Yoga, which is aimed more at consumers, and the Thinkpad Twist, which accommodates business users as well. Yoga: Twist: I know you guys are arguing about what the purpose of the new interface is, how intuitive or non-intuitive it is, and for a whole page now, where the shutdown button should be. I don't really want to step in the middle of that, but I just want to say a few things. If you watch the Yoga video, Kevin (I think his name was, the guy on the left) says something at around the 5:15, that some people are happy with only a phone, some with only a PC, some with only a tablet. Based on what I'm reading, you guys seem to be ignoring that Windows 8 is not just for PCs, it's made to be an OS that handles both tablets and PC form factors. In my opinion, the interface changes, as well as Metro/Desktop combination on laptops are not that big of a deal, once you realize that with this new OS, you could have devices that are both tablets and PCs at the same time. These Lenovo devices might not be the best in the market, but they sure are a good step in the right direction of having a laptop/tablet converged device. I, for one, am willing to accept learning new things, giving up a few conveniences if that means at one point, I could just have 1 device I could bring anywhere and just do whatever a laptop or tablet can do. I can bring it with me to work, and work in laptop mode, I can switch to tablet mode while commuting home, or relaxing on the couch, or waiting for a plane/train. Granted, if you are just going to use this thing on a desktop, I can see why you won't be able to appreciate it at all. But if you're going to use it on a laptop, make sure you have one that doesn't limit itself to work only in laptop mode. Get one of the devices like you see above. I'm pretty sure if you show ordinary people what they can do now with these new devices, they won't mind that the shutdown button, or things they were already used to, were moved in favor of a consistent experience across devices or across a device' different modes. Besides, are we really arguing that the shutdown button is now a mouse gesture and a click away, when you only need to do this once a day? This for me is the beauty of Windows 8.

I'm curious why you think that. Care to explain? I think this is one of the best new features of Windows 8. You easily collect a lot of junk on your system, even if you are careful. The fact that it doesn't (based on your post, I had no idea it worked this way) wipe your Metro apps have something to do with how Metro apps work and installed (in a sandbox and all). But why would it suggest a dark future? It might also be good for non-professional tech support, like when your friend messes his up, just tell him to backup his documents and whatever and restore. EDIT: I looked it up and there are two modes for this - one keeps settings and metro apps, the other wipes all clean.

RE: Colors. IMO, the icon colors have their purpose. I'm not stating this is a fact because I don't know if Microsoft intended it. Just like in iOS, the icon colors have purpose (green - phone, messages. blue - mail, safari). What their exact purpose are, at this point, is unknown. Also, I disagree with the opinions on colors so far. I think it's very nice design wise for Windows 8 to use those colors. It looks really good (IMO) when used with Metro-style interfaces. Like these: Powerpoint - https://skydrive.liv...E85F1AB56A!1284 Webpage - http://www.creepyed....olors-hex-code/ Not to mention Microsoft's own site. Edit: Also ebay's app: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/26/3188082/ebay-windows-8-app-released-windows-store

lol! I don't even remember that! Probably because I wasn't an Apple user back then...

I'm eagerly anticipating an Apple-like company in the GTA world. I sure hope we hear ads on the (in-game) radio, or TV!

Assassin's Creed III (PC) Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition (iPad) Final Fantasy X HD (Vita) Grand Theft Auto V (hopefully PC, but PS3 is fine as my friends are on it) I'm not anticipating a lot of games at the moment.

Preview pics to Dean's post above re: Live Tiles. http://forum.xda-dev...01&postcount=28 I don't know yet if they're really live or anything, but this was exactly what I was looking for. A way to replace normal icons. Now of course, nobody can be satisfied. The next thing I want is to stretch an icon into two columns, like the Mail app or Calendar. That way, I can highlight my most used stuff. That would be cooler than awesome!

I could have sworn i ran Sleeping Dogs on Win 8, not medium settings. Well, release preview... I don't remember I haven't touched any game in a month? The second link is probably exactly what I'm looking for! I'm gonna try that out later.

on iOS too! And i just bought it!

I think they were trying to be hip and trendy! About the tutorial: I was expecting something longer. But all it really told me was move my mouse to any corner and stuff will pop out. But I guess that's all you really need to know.

What? The Apple TV is really quite useful if you're in the ecosystem... With match and movie rentals and home library streaming and airplay...

I read the links, actually I just skimmed over some of it. Or read fast without actually trying to understand it. What I got from it was there were companies asking journalists to tweet about their game in the hopes of a PS3 reward. So they did, and now it made them untrustworthy. I get that I guess. However, what's that about Geoff Keighley and the Doritos?

IE is FAST in Windows 8.. woah... I use Chrome but sometimes I need another browser to open gifs or just to log in to another account. Or that odd website not working correctly in Chrome. Good to know I won't have to endure loading times. In release preview, it was still slow...

This. A million times this. Dragon Age 2 fixed this... if you played it. It was great!

Ok.. I see.. Personally, I think the All Apps right now is a mess. It looks like they dumped every shortcut available on another instance of a start page. However, I don't use that at all since I can search. But I see where you're coming from, and I agree that it's a mess. I still like the start page though. Now if I could only replace those square icons with images, it would be even better. Desktop is an App yes. I'm not saying it isn't. It just doesn't feel that way once you start doing your work on the desktop. The Metro UI just becomes a start menu, and it feels like you're calling it up from the desktop (like the old start menu), instead of feeling like "going back" to the main Windows 8 interface and leaving an app. But I'm not gonna drag this any longer than it has to. If they'd allow us to boot to the desktop, this would be more obvious. But since the start page is the first thing you see, what becomes obvious is that the Desktop is an App. Prolonged use will surely change that feeling. There's a difference (for me) with desktop icons and a page with pinned shortcuts. The first just feels messy. I myself feel annoyed (with myself) when I get a ridiculous amount of icons on the desktop. It's like having all these notebooks, books, pens, printouts, scattered on your work desk. With a start page, they're tucked away in a drawer. Just open the drawer and they're there. No need to mess up your desktop with it.

0_0 I'm pretty sure Android just starts auto closing apps at that point. Anyone know how it is on WP7 and WP8? Does android kill the apps while you're idle, or just when you attempt to open an app that needs more memory? On iOS without jailbreak, or minimal jailbreak tweaks, it kills apps when you start an app that needs it. It freezes apps on the background. Personal experience for me is that it never felt sluggish having too many apps open. I used to obsess closing them. But eventually just let them run in the background and there was no noticeable difference. Of course, if you've experienced it (whoever fuchi's friend was?), I won't argue with you. Anyway... I was asking if android did kill background apps automatically (without opening another app, that is). This was actually a question I posted on a status message. Do you even have to worry about metro apps running in the background? Or are they like iOS / android, which autokills, or freezes them on the background? I'm guessing not because this is not how windows operated before, but maybe they changed it for metro. What does this mean for tablets? Do you have to close Win 8 apps on tablets?

@Dean, I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying to look for your programs (like where they are located, etc.) on the internet. I was talking about configurations, settings. Look them up on the internet on how to access them (i.e. where they are now). It's the same thing you did on Windows 7 when they moved a bunch of stuff, or added new setting screens. And then I said, in the meantime, if you can't find the thing you're looking for (like power options menu), then just search for it for now, because search still works like in Win 7. Then look it up later on where to find the power options screen in Windows 8. Your comment about folder structures is by preference. If you ask me, I like the Start page, because of how many programs/shortcuts I can pin on it. There's only so much stuff you can pin on the start menu before you run out of space. The start page is like a huge cork board. I get it if you like the old menu better. But I don't think it's a negative. Your programs, or "All Programs" is still in the start menu. It's just now in the metro "context menu", the link to "All Apps". And arranged in a grid. They are still in "folders", but they aren't shown as folders, just all on 1 page (which is kind of a mess I think). But yeah. Search is still there and still the best thing to use to launch programs that aren't pinned on the start page. About Desktop is an App. I don't even know what the problem is that necessitated the comment/complaint "Desktop is an App". And I don't really care. However, as FDS said, and I'm repeating, it feels the opposite. When you say App, you're probably comparing it to MetroTwit or the News app, or the Mail app. But in reality, the Desktop App is very much unlike those apps. These apps you can close and they "die", basically. The Desktop App doesn't die. You can close it, but your programs that you launched on the Desktop, and all the Explorer windows and Chrome or Firefox browsers open will stay open. When you "start" the Desktop app again, all of those will be there. Closing the Desktop App means nothing, that's why the "Desktop is just an app" comment is meaningless. And also why we say that it's more like Metro is running on the Desktop, not the other way around. Why does it matter if the "Desktop" runs inside the "Start page" or not???

Seriously, guys. I'm with FDS on everything on this one. I upgraded to the consumer preview and everything's great. It starts up great. Desktop is just a click away anyway. Also the Desktop might be an app, but as FDS said it feels the opposite. You can close the desktop (by moving your mouse to the topmost, and then dragging down), but all the windows and programs you opened will still run. And when you "start" the "Desktop App" again, everything is as you left it. Give the start page a chance. I can have ALL my apps pinned in there and they're neatly arranged, just not in a list, but in a grid. I use the start menu a lot too and pin stuff on it, but yeah this new start page is much better IMO. Search still works, like Win 7. Can't find anything on the metro menus? Search it, for now, then look it up on the internet later on where to actually find it. Switching between Metro apps and Desktop apps is kind of a pain. But I don't use Metro apps, as there aren't anything good on the store... yet. However, you can pin metro apps on the left or the right side of the screen, and have Desktop open on the rest of the screen. Good Metro Apps SHOULD use this feature to actually help you multi-task. With regards to twitter, you should be able to see the tweets on a column, for example. Also, right clicking on Metro apps brings out a context menu, just not near the mouse pointer, but rather on the bottom of the app. I agree, it doesn't feel as intuitive as the usual context menu.

I'm replacing my dad's Nokia E71. I was thinking Blackberry would be a nice replacement, but I like it to be open to (more) apps. Of course, Blackberrys would have apps too and it would probably support the "landscape" default orientation of the phone. I'm imagining Androids with blackberry form factors can run apps but you have to tilt the phone, plus the screen is small (my friend has one of these). So addons are out of the question. Doesn't have to be a state-of-the-art phone. Doesn't have to be able to run games. Just enough app support to run productivity apps. Maybe a Blackberry wouldn't be a bad choice... Just in case anyone has anything in mind, or know someone who uses one... I swear we talked about this just a page or two ago! I checked the previous pages! I didn't check this page! It was here though. Lemme check that...